Editing The Pen Addict 364/transcript (section)

== Pen Shows Discussion ==


'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. So, like I mentioned, they're going to launch in St. Louis. And that brings us to our next topic, Myke, Pen Shows. So, I know you go to a lot of Pen Shows per year. How many Pen Shows a year do you think you go to? Let's see.

'''Myke Madison:''' I've been to five so far this year. Whoa. And I've got... At least, what, three more. So, that's seven this year. And that's maybe... That's about average. Yeah. So, why do you go? Why do you like to go to the Pen Shows? I mean, Pen Shows, for me, are really about people.

'''Myke Madison:''' I do... I work for a few of them. So, just sort of full disclosure, my wife, Audrey, is the nib doctor over at Franklin Christophe. And so, I'm super lucky to get to go to a lot of shows because, I mean, I can stay in a room with her. So, that's paid for by the companies. That helps me with a lot of expense. And I usually... I'll travel with them if they're driving or I'll just drive out there. Because living on the East Coast, I have access driving-wise to a lot of different Pen Shows. So, super lucky in a lot of ways to get to go to Pen Shows. But, man, Pen Shows, for me, are not really about shopping so much. So, I remember when I first started going to Pen Shows and I'd put up these Pen Show reports and, like, you know, a bunch of pictures and all this kind of stuff. And be like, yeah, I went to a Pen Show. I was there for about an hour. Found a Pen. Left. Like, I don't understand why it's great. And I'm like, well, it's because you're doing Pen Shows wrong. I mean, if you just go there to shop, like, if you treat a Pen Show like a trip to Target, then I think you're not really taking advantage of what the Pen Show offers. Which is a chance to, you know, meet and commune and talk to people who are kind of like you in a way that a lot of other people aren't, right? If you're a Pen Show person, you're probably psyched about stationery and pens and inks and all this other kind of jazz that we're into. And then you go to work and everybody's like, oh, look at your ridiculous pen, you know?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah, the way I try to explain it for people who don't really have that experience is you get to say a lot of things out loud that you don't normally get to say in your day-to-day life, right? Like, you get to talk about nibs and pen colors and wild inks. And these are normally, you know, when you're at home, these are conversations you probably only have in your head. And now you get to have them with other people and they're on the same wavelength and they can help you figure things out kind of, you know, that you're looking for. And yeah, I mean, I totally agree with the aspect of it. You know, definitely there's vendors there that are there to sell and make money and, you know, a lot of it is buy pens. But it's about so much more than that. And it's just the atmosphere and the people. And I know not everyone can like spend like an entire day at a show or much less multiple days. But if you ever get that opportunity, I think it's certainly, certainly well worth that experience. Yeah, definitely. And I'm not saying don't buy stuff at 10 shows. No, no, no, no. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, right. But yeah, I'm the same way. Like I used to go with a shopping list, right? And now I go with no list. And, you know, maybe I'll find something. Maybe I don't. But usually I do end up finding something. But, you know, I'm not like necessarily. I mean, let's face it. We have lots of access to lots of things these days. So, you know, we get a lot. Sometimes we get different things from being in person at a pen show, which is, you know, getting to see other people, meet other people, test out other products, find out, you know, about other things and learn and educate. Have you noticed anything different this year or in the past year or two than in the how long have you been attending pen shows? Oh, I don't know. Yeah. Like probably six or eight years. Yeah. I think that's probably probably about same here. And I was just wondering, like, you've been to a lot this year, probably a lot last year. Like, do you notice anything with the crowds, the vendors, the shows, the promoters that you like or even dislike or that's been new this year and what pen shows you've attended?

'''Myke Madison:''' Yeah, sure. I mean, I think the biggest difference is sort of a demographic difference. I mean, when I've and man, maybe I've been going to pen shows for more like a decade. It's been a while. But yeah, like the demographic is definitely changing the pen show. Like it used to just be like, I don't know, mostly older white dudes. And it's not really that anymore. You have a lot more like a younger demographic and you have more women and you have more, you know, more of everything, really, which is kind of great. And that's with just vendors and also attendees. I mean, maybe you've noticed the same kinds of things.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. I was going to say, can we say thank goodness, right? I mean, as two white dudes here, it's like I couldn't be happier to see way less old white dudes at the pen show. So the demographic has totally changed and I love it. And I think that's what makes it the most fun for me is seeing just the wide range of people from all backgrounds coming to the show. And a lot of them learning about pens for the first time. We have the amount of new people that are still attending. Like every show I go to, the amount of new people that's their first pen show, it seems like it increases to me, which I think is fantastic. Like that's a pretty neat, neat feeling to have people come up to you and say, hey, this is my first pen show and what should I do?

'''Myke Madison:''' Yeah, I actually get that a lot too. That's and I think some of that's because, you know, they'll see, you know, a video or something. Like I do a pen show walk around video on Fridays at pen shows and sort of give a tour of the place and introduce people to vendors and products and, you know, show people where things are and that kind of thing. And I've had a bunch of people come up and say, hey, you know, without videos like that, I wouldn't have come to a pen show. I'd be too like, I don't know, nervous or uninspired or I don't know, whatever it is that keeps people from, you know, going out to a pen show. And I hope that as the demographics change and as more and more people are going to pen shows, more and more people will be encouraged to go to pen shows, you know.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' I love your videos. I think that's one of the neatest things that anyone does like in our little space. Oh, thanks, man. Yeah, it's just so fun. And it's like it's real, right? It's unscripted. You don't know who you're going to run into, what you're going to run into. And I was wondering, do any vendors give you the stink eye when you're walking around with a camera and a little microphone pointing at them?

'''Myke Madison:''' Definitely.

'''Myke Madison:''' So, like there have been a couple of people who will kind of wave me off and usually they're, I mean, some people just don't want to be on camera. And I try as much as possible to be respectful of that. I know a few people, they're like, look, I don't want to be on camera. And so I avoid them. Yeah. And then sometimes people will see me coming and like they kind of know what I'm up to because I've been doing it for, I don't know, a year or two now, I guess. And if they don't, they're like, I'd rather not have that. Just kind of wave me off and I'll go around them. But the majority of vendors have been like, I've really been enjoying it. And I've talked to a bunch of them afterwards who have said things like, you know, thanks so much for stopping by and, you know, giving people a chance to see what I have. And some people have said, hey, I've noticed that I actually sell more stuff after you do a video. I'm like, well, I don't like that might be connected. I hope it is. Right. You know, I just want to show people that there are things because, man, if you're walking into your first or heck, even third pen show, you're walking into a sea of tables. And I mean, the average pen show has a hundred something tables, which isn't huge for a lot of trade shows. But if you're just walking into a pen show for the first time, it's just a sea of tables and it all sort of blends together and you have no idea what you're walking into sometimes. And so I think the video helps break it down and make it a little bit more granular. And so people will be more tempted to look at a table rather than just like walk past in a daze.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. And I think it's really cool that the vendors are open to doing this type of thing. Like that's a change for them too, right? Like we're not the only ones seeing change the vendors that, you know, don't, you know, who aren't really online as much as you and I are. And, you know, don't participate in social media and do all these things, Instagram, whatever. And, you know, looking at you from like, what is this guy doing to say, hey, this is kind of cool that other people can see what I'm doing and want to be a part of that. I think that's really, really neat. So I think it's, I think it's really awesome what you're, what you're doing with that. And I'm not going to lie, when you come up, I see you so much at pen shows generally. Like when we're there, we're there, we're seeing each other for like three and four days at a time. So I forget usually on Friday afternoon when you're rolling over with like your camera, I don't notice you. I think it's just Myke coming over to talk to me. So it always takes me about 10 seconds to realize I'm actually being recorded because I'm just used to talking to you anyway. Right. Yep. So on the, on the pen show discussion to wrap this up, what would you like to see changed or see more of at a pen show? Do you have an ideal pen show in your head? Like what would make it perfect for you?

'''Myke Madison:''' Ah, you know, I saw that in the show notes. I'm like, oh man, I got a couple of mean questions in here. That's one of them. Yeah, that's a tough one, man. I, I mean, there are some things that I, that I've seen at pen shows that I do really like. I mean, I like it when a pen show has some room to it. You don't, some of them are very cramped and they get crowded and it's just kind of uncomfortable. Um, so I like, I like a nice wide aisle. They had those in Raleigh. They had them at the old, uh, Philly show. Uh, Baltimore has some pretty good aisle space. Um, so that means that you can be looking at a table and somebody could be behind you looking at a table on the opposite side. And like a third person can walk in between. Yeah. That's, that's, that's really all I want.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' That's a big deal. That's like no joke.

'''Myke Madison:''' That turn, that changes people's attitudes, right? Yeah. And there've been a couple of pen shows where they have, um, they just sort of have tables interspersed where you can like relax, sit out your stuff, talk to a friend, show somebody a pen or a new ink or something, uh, write a note. I really like when that's available. So you don't have to leave the whole ballroom situation, you know, but this, that sort of thing requires a lot of room. And so, you know, my perfect pen show is an absurdly large room with a couch, a bunch of couches. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I want, and like, I was, I was sort of, I was sort of mulling this over and I was thinking, you know, what we need at pen shows are we need a good mix of modern stuff, vintage stuff, uh, grinders and repair folk.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah.

'''Myke Madison:''' And some pen shows have all of those things. Um, others like you might be missing one or two and that's kind of a big loss. You know, you'll have people that come in like, you know, I drove two hours to get this, you know, this pen fix. Like, oh yeah, we don't, I don't really have any repair folks. Like, yeah, he's could make it in Zorn couldn't make it in Martin's not here and, and that sort of thing. And it's like, oh man, then they like kind of leave disappointed and that sucks.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Or even if you just have one of those, like you need multiple of each like kind of discipline because when you have one, then they get overloaded, right? And the person that just came up for Saturday afternoon, well, guess what? There's a list of front in front of you, right? So it's the same type of situation. So I'm with you on the space and you know, it wouldn't be fair to just leave, leave this question all on you. So, uh, yeah, yeah. What's your favorite, what's your perfect pen show, Brad? You know, I'd like, I'd like more time for education, but I like classes and just learning and things like that for new and experienced users. But I have such a challenge with even saying that out loud. Because it takes away from floor time for, you know, like vendors come there to sell things, right? They're paying, they have expenses to cover us, right? So what I'm saying would take some of that away, maybe, but I don't know. I don't know if there's a happy balance for what that is. And, you know, then you're in up into like multiple, multiple day shows. And I don't know, it's a little bit more, you know, of a convention than a pen show. And then would you have buy-in from vendors? So I, I struggle with that like concept, um, a lot. And so I, I don't know that I have a good answer, but I do like the answers that you gave just for like, just the general flow of the shows. So I would like to see that, but. Have you ever taken a class at a pen show? Once. So like, that's, I'm going to try to do that. I don't know if I'm going to make it this year, but next year I'm going to try to go to one or two pen shows where I don't work. So to where I can just do that. Right. So the only time I've been able to do that is at the little rock pen show where I go and I don't work and I've taken like a, um, a maintenance, like a general maintenance, maintaining pens class there. And otherwise I haven't. And that's the one thing I personally miss like that. I don't get the opportunity to do. Um, cause I'm generally working like for knock and stuff. So I don't know. It's a, it's one of those pipe dream things. I don't know if it's like a completely separate thing that's not vendor based at all. Right. Where it's just more of like a fountain pen education thing for like a day or two where you get all kinds of, you know, different, um, different teachers into, to do things. And yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I haven't totally flushed that out how that would work, but that's where my head is sometimes. Yeah. Right. All right. Related to this pen show discussion, I need to give everyone some not co news. We had talked about, and I talked about on this show and publicly about attending DC. We are not going to attend the Washington DC pen show this year. So I'm super sorry to all of our customers and fans that wanted to see us there. Check out the not co table. I guess we've been there three, four years in a row right now, but I'm just buried. Like I'm not going to be, I think from now until DC, I have one weekend at home and it's just wearing me out. So I'm going to San Francisco at the end of August. So I needed a break before I get into there. So Jeff and I talked about it and we decided not to go to the DC pen show this year, which stinks. So we'll see about next year. We'll see how things go with the show. It's always a great show just from like sales perspective. So it's kind of hard to like logically miss that as a business. Right. But at the same time, it is super exhausting and I'll be heading into it just drained to begin with. So I wasn't exactly looking forward to that. So it's a personal decision kind of on my part, you know, to, to not go this year just to get a break in before San Francisco, because leading up until DC is just going to be a hot mess for me. So self-inflicted busyness, but that's okay. But sometimes things have to give another thing that had to give. And this is probably like a bigger topic than us not going to DC is knock is not going to wholesale products to retailers anymore. So this was kind of a long time discussion Jeff and I had been having. The short version is the margins are pretty bad and it's not sustainable for us to keep knock running smoothly and efficiently like it has in the past. So we have lots of inventory up and downs and don't have the margins to cover those wild swings. So our retail partners have been completely amazing, like supporting us over all the years. They've taken less margin themselves because our margins are so bad. They've accepted less margins just to carry our stuff, which is a big deal, like for have your vendors like support you in that kind of way. So I just wanted to thank them. So, you know, nothing's changing for knock except that we hope that Jeff and I can get back into being faster and have quicker turnaround on products and have more new colors and more new styles in faster time frames rather than having big, huge, like color runs that takes us months and months and months and maybe a year to sell through and can't turn over that product line as quickly. So that's our goal is to get back to turning over our product line more quickly to have more colors to create new designs, one of which we have in the hopper right now. Hopefully it's done for San Francisco. And yeah, just kind of get back to the me and Jeff model and focusing on what we're what we think we're really good at is creating cool products and having real fun with the colors. And, you know, hopefully our customers will like that. So it'll be a direct to consumer business going forward. And like I said, I can't thank our wholesalers enough, our retail partners. They've been just awesome to work with. So if y'all have any questions, y'all can always reach out to me online. You know, nothing's really changing like for our customer or anything like that. It's just it'll all start going through us now and maybe it'll allow us to be a little bit quicker on our feet, if you will, because we've been feeling a little bit sluggish turning over our products recently. And we want to we want to keep things fresh faster. So we're going to work on that going forward. All right. Big news there, Myke.