Editing The Pen Addict 502/transcript (section)

== Filling System Rankings ==


'''Myke:''' We're having some problems, me and you. So, that's my four filling system rankings. Okay. So, there's no D, no S. There's no D. Unless, there's no, definitely no S. There's no D. And, um, this is going to be problematic for a lot of people. Let me tell you mine, all right?

'''Brad:''' Let me tell you mine. So, I'm going to-

'''Myke:''' Did I miss any filling system? I feel like that's the main four, right? I think you're probably good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

'''Brad:''' I would go cartridge converter A-grade. Mm-hmm. I would go piston A-grade. Mm-hmm. I can explain these in a minute. Mm-hmm. I would go C-grade. There's no B for me. Uh-huh. I'm going to go C-grade for, um, VAC.

'''Myke:''' Mm-hmm.

'''Brad:''' D-grade for eyedropper. Okay. Now, the reason I'm doing this, right? So, it's VAC. Honestly, I could put, I could put quite easily VAC and eyedropper in D-grade. The reason being is they're too fiddly and complicated and you need extra stuff. So, like for a VAC filling system, correct me if I'm wrong, you actually need an adequate bottle, right? Yeah. That can provide the vacuum seal so you can do it.

'''Myke:''' Right. It's a two-handed operation.

'''Brad:''' Yeah. But also, it's like you either A, can't use all inks or B, you need to buy specific bottles for all of the inks that you would want to fill with, right? So, that's just like a pain, right? Mm-hmm. And then eyedropper, it's like, well, have you got grease? Do you have O-rings or be really careful? No, I'm not into any of that. So, I'm going to go A-grade. I like piston because you get a lot of ink in them and it's easy and it's all contained. Like, I like piston systems. Cartridge converters, just the most like cartridges and cartridge converters. People just understand that easiest. We agree on that. Right? We agree on that. So, I put them in there and then nothing is in C and then it all goes down to D because it's like, this is so complicated and it might not even work the way you want and you've got to buy a bunch of extra equipment just to even start. So, that's right.

'''Myke:''' Chat does want us to separate the eyedropper formats. I'm not going to do that. I think they're probably still both B-grades. There's the kind you're mentioning, right? Where you need silicone grease and you need to make sure the seals are tight and you have a little extra work. Or there's the Japanese type, which is basically a shutoff valve that, you know, it has less, you know, extraneous parts, but it's still filled the same way. Like, cartridge converter is an easy A for me. And I think the yelling I'm going to get is the difference between VAC and piston. I think eyedropper at B is not very controversial, although I think it's ahead of piston. I think it's ahead of piston filler. So, I'll try to explain this the best as I can and everyone will tell me I'm wrong and that's fine. And I'm not doing this for, to be contrarian.

'''Brad:''' You should make a YouTube video, you know.

'''Myke:''' So, VAC is a more complicated filling system than piston. But I'm actually giving it credit for that in my personal enjoyment of using a filling system. The technical advancement of a vacuum filler versus a piston filler makes a difference for me. A two-tier difference, I think, is where people will have a bigger problem with that. But the VACs are harder to clean than the pistons. I get more enjoyment out of them because of the way the added materials make the barrels feel.

'''Myke:''' Even though that's not the filling system part of this question. But there is a feel difference between a VAC and a piston generally a lot of times with the metal parts, at least the ones I've used. I'm not super experienced in VACs. But I like the technical aspect of the VAC. The piston filler, there's really nothing wrong with a piston filler. I just think that's where they rank in my realm of things. As fiddly as VACs can be, the constant twisting and turning of cleaning the pistons is equally as annoying. You can say it's not as bad. That's fine. I'll disagree. But it is no less fiddly than a VAC from cleaning. Of course, either of them, you can just unscrew the nib and clean it out that way. And it's even completely fine to do it that way.

'''Myke:''' Pistons just seem to be more frustrating to me from... I guess it's like the feel of it. I don't like the feel of filling a piston. I don't like that not knowing what's going on a lot of times inside my pen, even if I have a non-demonstrator type piston filler. I mean, the same could go for a VAC too. I'm not discounting that. But I've never put the piston filler on a pedestal like most people do who say they will only buy piston filling fountain pens. And I guess that's my biggest thing. It's not special to me in the way I use them because I get more functionality from a cartridge converter. I get the options of just switching in and out inks as I want quicker. I get the portability of cartridge converter A. A grade. The VAC is the A grade because I get the cool factor of the VAC filler. The eyedropper is a B grade for capacity and ease of filling. Well, that puts piston forth in my book. It just does. It doesn't mean it's bad and it doesn't mean it's not your favorite or someone else's favorite. It's just that it's not important to me personally when I'm shopping for a pen. That's probably the best way I can put it. It doesn't mean it's a technically bad filling system. It's just I don't care. Like some people care about a piston filling system, if that makes sense.

'''Brad:''' Fair enough. Not for me.

'''Myke:''' All right. You can email me at hello at penaddict.com. I'll just go ahead and save Myke.

'''Brad:''' Yeah, it's nothing to do with me. This is all Brad.

'''Myke:''' Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Your list is fine. I have nothing. I have nothing against piston fillers, but.

'''Brad:''' Seems like you do.

'''Myke:''' Annabelle wanted a ranking and therefore I ranked. And then you. It was just going to be fourth in my ranking. Then you made me put grades on them, which is fair. And you have to separate. The whole point of a tier list is you have to have. It's tiers. Step downs. You have to have step downs. And that's where it landed. So related to this, I'm going to put a link into the show notes that goes along with both Myke and I's tier grades. Tier grade A for cartridges. And Anna did an in praise of ink cartridges blog post last year. And I could not agree more with the ink cartridge love. I didn't used to be that way. Right. I was like, oh, I need a. You have to have a converter or it's got to be a piston or it's got to have some type of a filling system, blah, blah, blah. It's got to be special. And like, no, like I am totally down with ink cartridges. I would use ink cartridges all the time if that was my only, if every ink had a bottle or a cartridge option and I had a cartridge converter filling system, I would buy cartridges every time. Even though they're more expensive per milliliter there, I use them more and you get to change things more. Right. You don't end up with stocks of bottles. And that's a that's a personal thing. But I just wanted to shout out that article. So before we get into our last topic that came from the Twitch stream, Myke, I think this will cause less of a fight. This is more just kind of a straightforward conversation. And I thought this would be good for you to to to think about. And it's came from Greg. And the question is, what do you need to see in a limited edition to justify a price premium? All right. So let me let me put one little note in your thinking, Myke. So I'm thinking of this category of conversation as your more expensive pens, like in the three hundred dollar plus category. Right. I'm not talking about TWSBI Eco that I go, ooh, orange and buy it. Right. That's not the same category, I think, is what the intent of this question. Is that fair?

'''Brad:''' Yes. Yes.

'''Myke:''' OK. So we're talking like not a price premium in a nutshell, but a premium pen to begin with, which I'm categorizing for sake of this discussion is over three hundred dollars. Fair. OK. Yep. All right. Because like I will buy a new color TWSBI Eco just on a whim, whether I need it or not. Hey, cool. That's cool. That's cool. Give me that. Yeah. Right. This is this is different. This is like, hey, I need to think about my budget. Right. It's like you want to go. You want to go first?

'''Brad:''' Add expensive prices to a pen that's already expensive.

'''Myke:''' Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we could we could, you know, take Sailor or Platinum or any of those that we talk about a lot, you know, as a as an example. You know, so your standard pro standard pro gear slim is to 280 or whatever, 220 and the premium one is 320 like or whatever. Like what is going to make you what do you find special about these limited editions to where you will justify paying more for them for this? Essentially the same pen shape and design and functionality. What makes you pay $100 more, $200 more for a special one?

'''Brad:''' I think there's a couple of things that I've got to go on. I think the first is just like colors. I've got to speak to me. Right. Like that's because that's the first part for me. It's like just the visual design from there.

'''Brad:''' Adornments. I really like a pen that is interestingly made if possible. Extra bonus points for there's a good story for it. You know, I'm thinking of like the Japanese steel pro gear, the one where it's like hand, like put the pock marks in by hand, you know, into the pen. So if there's a story that goes along with the adornments, great. But it doesn't have to be. So something like the Bung Box 4B, it's just like it's got all those little lines in it. It just looks cool.

'''Brad:''' From there, it would be the furniture, I think, after that point. So like for me, I think it has to be the design has to be like visually from a color perspective what I want. And I have to feel like I'm getting something extra to justify it being limited. This can be as simple as, well, this demonstrator has got glitter in it. It's like, oh, awesome. It looks great. They don't usually do that. You know, so that's kind of where it goes for me, I think.

'''Myke:''' Yeah, it's like an aesthetic jump from your stock additions.

'''Brad:''' I don't need personally exact value. Sure.

'''Myke:''' You're never going to get it.

'''Brad:''' I mean, you can, right? Where it's like, well, this one's limited edition and we're making it out of a different material, which is more expensive, and you're paying for the additional cost of this material.

'''Myke:''' Yeah, but I mean, it's a quantity thing too, right? That you run into. Like Platinum will do a 3,000 unit limited, and then Sailor will do, you know, 30, 100 unit limited editions.

'''Brad:''' What I've said is, for me, the amount doesn't really factor in too much. Agree. Like, that's not something, that is not something that I care about, but it is something that will make me make a faster decision.

'''Myke:''' Yeah. Yeah, the exclusivity generally never plays into my decision-making process. No. At least currently. Maybe in the past.

'''Brad:''' Especially because I have thought that before, and then they come out with more of them. You know? Right. Exactly. It's like version two. It's like, well, now it's, you know.

'''Myke:''' Yep. All right. So my list, we have some overlap. One thing you didn't mention was actually the top of my list. And I'm saying this just not in a general sense. I'm saying this in my taste of transitioned sense from, you know, I bought a lot of special editions, limited editions in the past. So today, what is going to make, like now I'm buying less of those. What would make me buy one? And now I think it starts with the nib for me. And it either has to be a non-standard nib, meaning there's some aftermarket grind or current market grind or a different shape or just a non, not a medium nib, you know, or a fine nib, something different. And slash or non-traditional nib stamping. Right? If you're going to make a special pen and not include nib is part of the special part. Right? If you're going to use a stock nib, I'm less, nowadays I'm less interested in that. Right? Like just the fancy barrel colors may not cut it. Like with Sailor, if I'm just getting the regular Sailor nib, I want, I want a full story told. Right? If you're telling me about this pen barrel and the color you chose and the materials you chose to tell this story and don't include the nib in the story, it's less cohesive. And therefore, it makes me like it less if we don't have like cohesion from like top to bottom of the pen. Right? Which, you know, that happens a lot if a company is just turning out limited edition barrels over and over and over again. And it's the same nib, same nib, same nib. It's like, well, what are we doing here? So, like that's my number one factor I'm looking at. The second, I actually wrote down a barrel texture. Right? This is like your adornment statement. And as soon as you said that, I wrote down 4B before you mentioned it. I think that's kind of the ultimate pen that I don't own. It was too expensive for me at the time, like when I was thinking about buying it. But that's what I want. I at least thought about that one. Right? I would consider paying an ultra premium for that model because of the way the barrel was designed over a limited edition. That's half the price. That's just a color change. Right? So, that's where that price premium comes into play that answers Greg's question. Right? That one's like a 2X price from a lot of the regular sailor ones. But I don't question the price whatsoever. Right? Like I say that is worth the premium. We have justified the price premium with that pen. So, I think that's like the target example for the premium being worth it to me. Right? This is all personal. Right? So, everyone has their own little personal list. So, I would love to hear from listeners. Like if they have a thing nowadays, especially, you know, as you go along your fountain pen journey, you know, you start to learn more and your tastes change and you figure out more what you like. And right? Like the everyday color launches don't do it for me as much as what are we going to do that's really special even though it's going to cost me more. But it's more of what I want now. Yeah. Just because that's the place I am in my fountain pen journey. That's exactly where I am.

'''Brad:''' Like there was a nice looking, there's another nice looking pro gear that I just saw yesterday.

'''Myke:''' The black and yellow one? Yeah. Oh, it's killer looking.

'''Brad:''' Looks great. Yeah. But to me, it's just black and yellow.

'''Myke:''' Yeah. It looks awesome. I have no interest personally. Exactly. Right? It doesn't mean it's not like, to go back to our tiers, it doesn't mean it's not an A-tier pen.

'''Brad:''' Uh-huh.

'''Myke:''' It means, hey, cool, and then we'll see what's next.

'''Brad:''' It's called the stellar black hole, right? It's really pretty. And so, when I saw it, I was like, great, what's the finial going to be? And it doesn't really seem like there's anything special going on there. There's no images of it that I've seen in a variceal and nipsmith. And so, it's kind of like, well, then they've missed a trick. Like, if they would have done some really cool, like, black hole-looking imagery made out of Rodden and something, you know what I mean? I'm like, well, maybe I'm on board here, but they didn't do that. So, it's kind of just like, it's nice, but I don't need, I don't want this for my collection, particularly.

'''Myke:''' Right, right. We have a lot of choice now. We are flush with choice, so we can wait.

'''Brad:''' So, it's not just a choice for me, it's the fact that I have so many, right? Yeah, exactly. I'm good. I'm covered. I'm blessed to have so many pens that I can use different ones every single day. But that just means that my personal threshold for adding has come down. Correct.

'''Brad:''' Correct. Especially adding new versions of pens I already own. Yep. That's the bigger part. Yeah, we'd love to know, for the Pen Addict listeners, what is the differentiator for you when it comes to limited editions? Send them in to us. Use hashtag AskTPA. You know, go into a spreadsheet, which we can use, if you're in the RelayFM members Discord, question mark AskTPA for that too. Or you can email them to hello at penaddict.com. When you're there, go to penaddict.com. Check out the top five lists. See when Brad updates it. Who knows? Could be any day. Could be any moment now. Could be any decade. Any period of time between now and the heat death of the universe. That top five list could be up there. You can find Brad online at penaddict.com. He's spokedesign.com. He is dowdyism on Twitter, penaddict on Instagram. And Brad streams live three days a week, twitch.tv slash penaddict. Is that Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays? Correct. Still. Yep. Mm-hmm. Tuesdays, Thursdays, 10 a.m. Eastern. Wednesdays, once we're finished recording live. We do record this show live every single week. You can go to relay.fm slash live and you can listen in. But if you are a RelayFM member and you're in the Discord, you get the live chat and you can listen there in the Discord too, if you would like. I am iMike. I am YKE on Twitter and Instagram. Go to cortexmerch.com. You can buy yourself a theme system journal. Those things have been flying off the shelves this year, Brad. I'm very, very pleased. Love it. Thank you to everybody that has been buying a theme system journal, working on some new stuff. But the old supply chain has come for me, Brad. It happens. I was getting ready here and then the old supply chain is like, oh, don't have any of that paper. Okay. I guess I'll just wait.

'''Myke:''' So I'm waiting. Logistics, baby.

'''Brad:''' Yeah. All right. Thank you so much to Trey Coffee and Pen Chalet for the support of this week's episode. But most of all, thank you for listening. And we'll be back next week. Until then, say goodbye, Brad. Goodbye, Brad.

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[[Category:The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript]]