Editing The Pen Addict 376/transcript (section)

== Pen Chalet Deals ==


'''Myke Hurley:''' They sure did. So go right now, penchalet.com. Click that podcast link at the top of the website and enter the password pen addict for those special deals. Our thanks to pen chalet for their support of this show and relay FM. All right. So from an overall perspective, Edina, I kind of want to get your thoughts on attending the San Francisco pen show. Do you have any overall thoughts? Was there anything like that surprised you compared to what you expected you were going to be seeing?

'''Adina Hurley:''' So I think that in the show that the episode you recorded right after the show, you summed it up pretty well in saying that I had first pen show fever. But yeah, that was pretty accurate. But I guess I found it all overwhelmingly positive and just wonderful. I did not expect to enjoy it this much and to feel so welcome. Um, and, uh, it was just like, there are so many beautiful pens. Everyone was so lovely. And this community around pens was just so nice. Um, I love the ink stations to test ink in there.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Yeah, you spend a lot of time on those.

'''Adina Hurley:''' Oh, I love those so much. And I'm just so sad that I didn't get to try them all. Um, the classes were awesome. Um, obviously seeing you guys in the live show, that was another mind blowing experience for me because I've never, until the day before I had never seen Myke on a live show. Um, and the location was great as well. I know you guys talked a lot about that. So there, I don't know. I, I imagine that not every show is like this, but this just seemed like such a wonderful show, pen show to start with. And it definitely makes me want to go back or try others as well. Um, and I was just gushing about the whole thing for the days following it and during and everyone who talked to me, I guess, even Anna, I think said on the episode that she could tell I was really enjoying it. So it was awesome. Um, in terms of what was different than expected, um, the funniest thing probably was that I didn't expect to get recognized so much. I thought I was just like, uh, walk around, try things incognito. Uh, but, uh, it, it, it was, it was actually really cool that a lot of people recognized me and recognized me because of the episode I was on on before the show. And everyone was just so nice. Either they were newbies like me and I had someone to talk to, either they were, um, more advanced and they were just so keen to help me and explain things to me. And I really appreciated that from everyone. I learned so much in a weekend. I feel more, um, less intimidated by this whole world. Um, what else?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. In the, in the lead up to the show, like in the, in the pre-show that we did with you, uh, you talked a lot about the beginner fountain pens that you had, um, you know, going into the show and were a little bit concerned just on, you know, how you would feel, you know, being around all of the other, you know, people who are maybe more experienced. But I think from the feedback you gave me and from the feedback other, others gave me, people really appreciated that fact about you. What did you think about the reception for like, you know, what you were saying about just being a beginner in all of this and how you were accepted?

'''Adina Hurley:''' Uh, I think that once you own that view and think that it's, it's okay. Everyone starts somewhere. I think everyone just took the, that position with me and just explain things. No one, it just, I, that's, it's difficult to explain. I guess when you make your position known, other people know what you need and how to treat you and what you need help with. So, uh, I, I really appreciated that some people just came up to me and told me, here's what you need to look for when you're buying a pen or, um, or, um, just sharing the Franklin Christophe experience that you guys have recommended me do. Other people who are at my level tried it too. And we were comparing notes and it was just really lovely to have people to talk to at my level in a way, um, in terms of reception.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. And that's the point. Like I wanted to get across is like that it's not uncommon for someone like you say at your level to come to one of these shows. Like everyone has to come to their first pen show, right? And everyone has to buy their first pen and learn about these things. And I've found this community to be just like so open and willing to help anyone with questions. Like I was anxious to see if that was like the experience you would get. And I think it's pretty clear that it was.

'''Adina Hurley:''' Yeah. And everyone just, uh, wanted to help. I would often, so I have two pens that I wasn't super happy with how they were writing and I would just get other people to write with them and test them and put, they were able because they're more advanced to put into words what they thought was wrong with how the pens wrote, but I couldn't verbalize that. So, but more advanced pen owners would already have that level of knowledge. And that was awesome. And including you, you were able to give me the tips or send me in the right direction for what to do next. And from that, I learned so much because I ended up, um, at the, the Nibsmith stand. And I, this is when I was with you and, uh, then looked at the pen and that's how I learned that, whoa, uh, red inks with red pigment actually are more on the dry side. And that's what I was using on my sailor, uh, pen with a fine nib. So ink had less space to flow through and it was more dry. That's why I had such a dry experience when I wanted the wet flow experience. And it's like, I'm learning so much about these things and everyone has the patience to tell me, uh, what they think I might be looking for, how I can get there and what I need to do to fix it. And this is how I learned about ink additives. And I think that was a surprise for Myke as well. So that was cool for me as well that I could find my, and that's what I always wanted, I guess, to find my way through the show, find out about my own stuff and then share them with Myke and even Myke to be surprised because it's like, it's such a big world that everyone has their own experience and everyone finds their own stuff in it. And I guess that's the part of being part of, part of a pen community that we can share and exchange stories and whatever.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Yeah. I always come away from a pen show with a little factoid like that. Like I didn't know that different colors of ink are typically will flow differently and that you can buy additives from companies like Van Ness to drop into ink to change the properties a little bit. I had no idea that you could do any of that. Yeah.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' And, and to Adina's point of, of, you know, answering questions and, you know, so many people are out there to help. That's one of like my most important things I try to mention before a show is even though like I'm working at the knock table, like I'm here for you, for listeners or anyone who's, you know, has any question of anything like that's going on, like with something, a pen they're looking at an ink question, like just, and I'm glad people take advantage of like coming up and like asking me to help them. Like it's, it's hard to ask for help when you don't know, you know, people who to ask. So I always try to make a point of saying that, Hey, I'm open to like any and all questions. And, you know, people come up to say, hi, say, Hey, this is my first pen show. I make a point to say, Hey, if you're looking around and you ever have a question on anything and you're not comfortable or just inquisitive, just, you know, come back and I'll do what I can to help you. And if I don't know the answer, I probably know someone who does. So, you know, that's very important to me at, at pen shows to, to, you know, help others out who are just getting into this hobby. So yeah, it's awesome.

'''Adina Hurley:''' Oh, that's really nice. It makes it, it definitely makes it more accessible and less intimidating for someone who's new to all of this. Yeah.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Because that's a, that's a big and crowded room to walk through, right? It's like, you can't even see, you can't even see the floor half the time, like on Friday and Saturday, it was so busy, right? Yeah.

'''Adina Hurley:''' But yeah, something else I discovered too, that yes, a pen show is the perfect place to take your broken or less than perfect pens to, because there's so many people there to help you and need grinders. And it's just a perfect place to, if you write with pens anyway, to take them, talk to other people about them, fix them if needed.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Yeah. Cause that was one of the things that you were talking about and you were struggling with a little bit, right? Was you had a Sailor Pro gear that you were unhappy with the result, like the way that it was writing for you?

'''Adina Hurley:''' Yeah. So it was the first time I got a fine nib. Um, and I am using this Robert Oster ink, uh, that's with a shimmer. I think it's dusty pink. I'm, I can remember the shade really well.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Is it Quartz something? Isn't it the name?

'''Adina Hurley:''' Oh, might be. I don't have it on me right now.

'''Myke Hurley:''' I'll find it and put it in the show notes, don't worry.

'''Adina Hurley:''' Um, so it's not a vivid, strong color anyway. So that combined with the fact that not enough ink was flowing through the nib either, I felt like I was never writing. And even though the pen was, the nib was gliding well on paper, it just felt like it, there was some resistance somewhere. And in showing it to other people and showing it to Dan from Nibsmith, um, he was able to widen the shaft, I guess, and make more ink follow, flow through. And he suggested the additives and oh my God, ever since I came home, I, I've been perfectly happy with it. And I haven't even added the additive to the ink yet. I will try that as an experiment as well, but that, that, that little consultation session just made such a huge difference for, for a pen that I loved how it looked anyway. I wanted it to write perfectly as well, you know?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Right. So like the, the level of minutia that so many people, including myself to this day, don't know about, like you can actually take a fountain pen and adjust its flow. You can make it a drier writer, or you can make it a wetter writer without, you know, much work by someone who knows what they're doing. It's literally just like some physical adjustments to the nib and the feed and how they're seated on each other. And, you know, people like you had this pen, you love the aesthetic, it writes okay, but is there a way to make it right? Perfect for you specifically. And like, you can learn these things and get these adjustments made. And like, it's kind of eyeopening, like some, for someone who would buy a pen and not have these resources that we do and really be disappointed with the experience because they expected something else. And, you know, there's an argument, well, I shouldn't have to adjust anything. Well, that's kind of not the case with fountain pens, you know, they're made to be highly customizable. And sometimes you have to get a little tweak done to make it perfect for you, which you found out in this case.

'''Adina Hurley:''' Exactly. It's so difficult. Your writing style is so personal to you that it's difficult to standardize a nib and a flow and all of these features to match everyone. So, and I was ready to think that, oh, all sailors are wrong. I'll never, are bad for me. I'll never buy a sailor. But really it's all, it's more about when you buy a pen, I guess it's, you should, people, people should, and me, I should think more about how to make it my own as well. And especially as this one in particular was my first leap into the more valuable pen ownership world. And I think something that I've talked about to other people at the show as well has been that this first big purchase is such a significant purchase for them. People were telling me how, oh, what you were talking about inspired me to make my first pen purchase, a serious pen purchase at this show. And they were coming back with the pens, showing them to me. So it really is a more emotional purchase than others. And you want, you want it to be perfect. And you're not always going to be a going to make this at the pen show and adjust it on the spot. Sometimes you'll order it online. And you might be disappointed when it gets to you when you finally get your hands on it. And it's okay, it can be fixed. That's what I've learned.

'''Myke Hurley:''' It's not always fixing. Sometimes it's just, it is adjusting. There's been many instances where I've had a pen where like, this is fine. It works. It works good for me, but you can get it tuned a little bit more for it to be perfect. Yeah. You know, I think that was kind of where you were with yours that maybe we would have tried a different ink and you would have been like, yeah, it's a bit scratchy, but it does the job. But now it's like, oh, it's, it's spot on. Cause plus you, it's a fine. Yeah. It is a fine. Yeah. Which is, which is more on the kind of outer edge of what you're used to right now anyway. So it was always going to meet with resistance, pardon the pun, but like it was always going to meet with some resistance for you anyway, because you were used to stub nibs and broads and then going to a fine is a big jump. So it was always going to be tricky anyway. But then there was also some, some stuff that actually didn't need

'''Adina Hurley:''' to be adjusted for that pen to be spot on for you. Yeah. So that, that was great. That was, that was great. That was, I love the experience of going through all of this and making my first pen purchase great for me. And I love my sailor now. Yeah. And this is my experience of anything

'''Myke Hurley:''' that I've had nib grinded ground or adjusting. Like I've not gone to some of the lengths that Brad's gone to get like, here's this crazy custom grind that will only really work for my handwriting or whatever. Like it's always just been like, this isn't working right. Can you help me? Yeah. Or like, I've just bought this pen and I want to make sure that it's like perfect. Yeah. And so I've done some stuff like that in the past, but I've never, I've never gone into a nib grinding situation to be like, let's, let's do some mad science. Yeah. And my goal alone is just

'''Brad Dowdy:''' to get people comfortable sitting in that chair because that's a nerve wracking experience if you've

'''Myke Hurley:''' never done it before. So anything you can do to like help with that. You are sitting across the table from someone who knows so much more about this thing than you do. And that, that is daunting on its own, let alone that you are entrusting them with some irreparable in some instances work, right? They are removing metal from the nib because there isn't some, a ton that you could do if it's done wrong. So you're putting a lot of trust in people's hands as well when you go into those

'''Adina Hurley:''' situations. So it is daunting. This is another world that I've started to discover a bit and mostly through the Franklin Christoph experience when I tried a lot of nibs as you guys recommended to me and I could try the factory nibs and that was great to understand the type of nib that is best for me. But then they had this category of the Masuyama fine tuned nibs. And then understanding that this is someone who tries a nib in all the way. Do you know you saw that guy? Yeah. Yeah.

'''Myke Hurley:''' Okay, cool. I wasn't sure if you knew that you'd seen him, but yeah. Yeah, I made sure. Yeah,

'''Brad Dowdy:''' I did. I did. We didn't get to, we didn't get to talk to him, but I made sure. Yeah,

'''Adina Hurley:''' I knew who he was and that he's a big deal and that I tried his, the nibs he fine tuned in the experience. And wow, you can definitely tell the difference when you try a factory issued nib versus one that's been fine tuned by a nib grinder. Cause this is someone who's put in a lot more hours to, I assume from what I understand at least, to try the nib from all angles and just make sure it, uh, aqua planes, a term I learned at this, uh, show, um, and just glides nicely on the paper with no resistance and just works perfectly. And this is just more hours put into that one nib and why it costs more, but wow, the difference is you can tell it's worth it for sure. Um, yeah. Uh, what else? I think that, uh, another thing that I didn't expect was, uh, more about me and how quickly I lost my, we're getting introspective now. I just lost it really. There are so many beautiful pens and so there was so much fun to be had and classes were awesome. And, but, um, I always thought I was, uh, going to be this rational, uh, consumer making the rational purchase decisions. And I had a budget and I was going to stick to it. And no, no, I lost it. I fell in love with so many pens on the first day. And, um,

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. Just, just for the record, will you restate your initial budget?

'''Adina Hurley:''' Yes. In the episode we called, we used to budget that I can stand by today. We used to budget, including me, uh, uh, was $250. And I think I spent three to four times that amount. Obviously I also had Myke in my ear and also as an enabler, uh, who constantly encouraged me and, uh, uh, nudged me towards making these purchases, but I never thought, I never thought I was going to leave a show with that much.

'''Myke Hurley:''' I sacrificed the majority of what would have been my budget and then encouraged Adina to spend it.

'''Adina Hurley:''' But, oh my God, I'm still, I can't believe I did that. I just fell in love with a lot of pens, but walked away with two, but I love them so much. And I matched them with the perfect ink. Um, and I just love looking at them.