Editing The Pen Addict 364/transcript

{{Infobox podcast transcript
| name            = The Pen Addict
| number          = 364
| title           = Transitional Area of Doom
| date            = June 19th, 2019
| hosts           = [[Brad Dowdy]]<br>
[[Myke Hurley]]
| guests          = [[Mike Matteson]]
| link            = [https://www.relay.fm/penaddict/364 Episode 364]
| audiolink       = [https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.libsyn.com/thepenaddict/penaddict364.mp3 Audio Episode 364]
| length          = 86
}}

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Hello and welcome to episode 364 of The Pen Addict podcast, your weekly take on all things pen, paper, pencil, stationery, ink, erasers, envelopes maybe, some letter writing. I don't know. I'm Brad. I don't normally do this. It's usually my partner, Myke Hurley, but he's not here this week. We'll call it on assignment. And joining me, filling in, thankfully for Myke, who just had to vanish into the ether, is another Myke, Mr. Myke Madison from Ink Dependence. How's it going, Myke? Hey, Brad. I am doing awesome this morning. Good, good. I really appreciate you filling in. I put you through a fire drill in the past, I don't know, 24 hours or so to see if we could get this done. And I really appreciate it. So thanks for filling in for the other Myke today. Yeah, still prevalent at all, Brad. You know, I feel kind of guilty that your name is Myke, and I have to refer to y'all as like the other Myke or that one Myke. So I apologize for that. It's like, you're your own Myke. You're your own person. And you should be appreciated for that.

'''Myke Madison:''' So growing up, Myke was one of the most common names around. I almost never have a student named Michael. But growing up, there were always four or five Mikes in my class. And so I'm totally used to it. And so is every other Myke.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yep, yep. That makes sense. That makes sense. So what we're going to do today, as opposed to like, necessarily having you on for an interview, I'm definitely going to pick your brain as we go throughout this show. But I just want to talk about stuff a lot. You know, Myke and I traditionally just talk about the regular things that we have going on and new products and launches and things like that. But I want to get into a little bit of things you're using. And we'll talk about other things. I know you're known for bags and backpacks. And we both kind of share that fondness of things. So we're going to dig into a ton of different topics today. And first, I wanted to know what you're writing with. What are you using recently? What are you enjoying?

'''Myke Madison:''' Like right now, I'm using this machine era field pen that I just got a little while ago. And I think you got one too. Yeah, it was a Kickstarter project. It did really well. It's a really neat pen. Yeah, I mean, it's heavy as all get out. But when you write with it, it's actually very, it's very comfortable. So I've been, I've been trying to use this one, because I'm thinking of, you know, doing it for a review eventually. So that's what I've been writing with a lot. I mean, I've been writing with fountain pens a lot, of course, too. I've got, you know, I've always got about 20 pens on my desk somewhere. And so kind of a little bit of everything. I've just gotten a nice care package and care package. I bought it a big box of Birmingham company, pen company inks. So I'm testing those out a little bit. And I've been using this right notepads landscape notebook for the last, I don't know, a few weeks. And I really like this thing.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah, they are shockingly fountain pen friendly. Like, you know, it's a it's a dryer page. It's not necessarily a coded page like a rodent second machine like a Tomoe. But it really handles pretty much anything, right? Have you found that to be the case?

'''Myke Madison:''' Yeah, I've been using front and back. So I was looking at it like, Oh, I've only used like four pages. Well, I've used four pages, but completely covering the front and back with no, I don't think I've, I've got a little bit of ghosting here from, from like one ink. And I think it's probably, what heck ink is this? I don't actually know what ink that is. Some red. But the rest of it seems like it's been fine. So yeah, it's been really good.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. And we're always good with like the outliers, right? Not every paper is going to work perfectly with every ink, you know, sometimes one of them is going to, you know, show through or feather or something. And like, that's acceptable. Like, that's totally okay for a really good quality paper like these, and these right notepads, I think.

'''Myke Madison:''' Yeah, and I really like that this is, I like that it's spiral bound, and I like that I can use the front and back. I've been using the, the Baron Fig Mastermind, which is kind of, you know, kind of the same thing, but it's glue bound at the top, and it's not printed on the back. And so once you rip a sheet off, you just got like a loose page hanging out. Yeah, you can't fold it over. So I think it's, I think the right one is like twice as good, because I can use both sides of the page.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' And it like the Masterminds, like a desk size pad, and the right one.

'''Myke Madison:''' I think these are actually just about the same size.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' About the same size. Okay, cool. So, and, but you're easily, more easily portable with the right, with the cover, and you can take it places where do you keep the, just the Mastermind on your desk mostly, or do you take it with you? Yeah, yeah, no, it stays at home. Stays on the desk. Yeah. Cool. Yeah, those right notepads, I just like that. Anything in that orientation usually gets me pretty good. Now, the Birmingham Pen Co. inks. I haven't gone there yet, but I'm super tempted. How did you decide what colors to pick? Because there are hundreds? Is that safe to say?

'''Myke Madison:''' Well, so the thing is, this is my first order for them. My friend David let me borrow a pen that had this Golden Gazette ink in it. I'm like, oh, I got to get some of that. And it's apparently not really a regular offering. Mm-hmm.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' I just, I just should stop and reconsider my life choices at this point. But they look fantastic. I'll be interested to see what you, what you think about them. And they're one of the few companies, there's a couple now with Ink Flight, but you can also get a subscription service from Birmingham if you're into that, right? I think so. They actually just canceled it. Oh, no. So, yeah. Yeah, yeah. See, that's a hard thing to do, right? That is a difficult thing. So, like, you know, I was, you know, subscribed to the Goulet one back in the day. It's only been a couple years since they ended it. But man, that is a tough thing. So, I guess Ink Flight is the way to go these days if you're looking for a subscription. But yeah, these Birmingham Penco inks look fantastic. And I love their naming conventions like any highly specific naming conventions.

'''Myke Madison:''' Yeah, and each model has the, like, a little story about where the name came from on the label. And I'm like, that's a pretty cool little feature.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah, I'm totally into that type of, like, specificness in products. Like, that's my thing. I love it. Yeah, it definitely is your thing.



== Personal Gear Discussion ==


'''Brad Dowdy:''' So, speaking of my thing, I've been using the Crandash 849, the Claim Your Style model, which they did. This is the 50th anniversary of the 849, which I had no idea. I just saw a bunch of pretty pens show up in a pen model that I like. And I was like, yes, give me one. And it turns out that it was, like, actually for their 50th anniversary. Do you use mini ballpoint pens, like, in your daily use or just kind of beating around or regularly at all?

'''Myke Madison:''' Yeah, totally. I've always got, well, almost always got a couple of pens on me. I usually carry a fountain pen and a ballpoint or a rollerball of some sort in my pocket. I get, like, a two-pin case or something and throw both of them in there. Because they both have very distinct use cases, right? Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I've got one of those 849s right here on my desk, too. It's the super bright orange one. Yeah. But yeah, I've got several of these little ballpoint rollerball guys sitting here. I mean, I've got a spoke pen here. You might know about those. Nice, nice. I've got this Squire. I've got this Mark 1. I've got a shown design. Like, this is just, like, sitting in front of me. So, yeah, totally.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' We should do, like, a desk comparison picture because it sounds like you're looking at my desk while you're talking about your desk. So, that's pretty funny. It is a mess. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. We're going to talk about that. We have questions about desk messes. And storage later that we will cover lots of questions for this episode. So, I appreciate all the listeners helping us out to fill this one out. But yeah, the 849 is just one of those pens that, like, gets me, right? It's the right size. It's the right style. So, you know, I like the barrel shape. And it's just a real good quality. And I was able to pop in the new Jetstream. I guess it's – I forget. It's that – they number their refills, like, XSR, 600, 700, whatever it is. Yeah, it's that Parker-style Jetstream, right? Yeah. And it just pops right in the 849, no modification. And I just go to town with it. So, I've been using it recently, most recently, in my Sumkin A5 agenda, which I've talked about maybe a thousand times already this year. But I've never made it this far into a year using the same agenda or planner. So, I'm going to keep talking about it because I keep using it. And it was just a random purchase towards the end of last year as, you know, you're getting the calendars rolling over. And I had, you know, sworn off the Hobonichis and the Jibun Techos and different things like that. I was going to go no planner. Then this one popped up and it has the layout that I like. And it was split into two calendar, two six-month notebooks. So, like, they're a softcover A5. And I happen to have an A5 case that I like to carry things in. So, I said, well, let me give it a shot. And, oh my gosh, it stuck with me. So, I've used it, like, every week and I really, really enjoy it. So, do you use any type of planner or system, agenda, anything like that?

'''Myke Madison:''' You know, actually, I just put up a review of the Midori Travelers system. Because I've been actually, for the last six months, rocking two planners at the same time. And that is a lot to keep up with. But I really like the Jibun Techos that you just mentioned. That's my go-to planner. Although, the Simken one that you just talked about looks really cool, too. So, I used the Jibun Techos and then I was also using that Travelers at the same time. And I decided I'm going to stick with the Techos, but the Travelers is a perfectly good one, too. Just, it's missing, like, two features that I really want in a planner.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. So, what I'm seeing, like, I enjoyed your Travelers system. And it actually made me reconsider what I'm doing. But, like, your reviews showed how you use the one week over two-page layout. And you would put in those blocks of time, like, for your teaching responsibilities and class times and things like that. And I was like, you know, I could really use a broader view, even if it's just a week over two pages or, you know, a month over two pages. And the Simken really doesn't do that super well. I guess there's some options in the front, but I don't know. It doesn't flow that way for me. So, yeah, I need to look into that.

'''Myke Madison:''' But that's the thing that's actually missing in the Travelers for me is the month over two pages layout. And that's what I really like in the Jaboon. So, it's got, like, two ribbons. And so, I keep one on the month and one on the week. And so, then I can look at both. Because, man, being able to visualize a whole month or a whole week at a time is pretty useful for me.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. That's where I'm falling into a trap here recently. Like, I'm okay with this week, but then I'm losing, getting lost in making plans for the future. Like, I'm not handling that very well. And that's catching up to me recently, which we'll talk about more of those things later, too. Anything you're looking for right now? Do you have a wish list or a shopping list? Anything that you don't have right now that's really caught your eye? Like, I had a hard time coming up with this. Like, I'm pretty content with, like, all the things I've bought recently and anything that's come across my desk. You know, I don't know that I have necessarily, like, a short wish list of anything. Is there anything you're seeing out and about?



== Shopping Cart Items ==


'''Myke Madison:''' You know, I don't really have a shopping list at the moment, except for I do have a JetPens cart. Yeah. Don't we all. And right now, right? And right now, there's one that I'm sort of waiting for, which is a, or waiting to come back into stock. And it's, it's just, like, weird, unzippable pencil tray thing with, like, four compartments that lays out, like, a tray. Ooh. And there's a bunch of different colorways, but I only like one. So, I'm just, like, waiting for that one. And I dithered too long and it went out of stock. Yeah. So, now I'm just waiting for that. And I've just got, like, have you ever used these Sakura ball sign gel pens?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. I want to say yes, but it's, like, I recognize the name, but let me look them up. Because they're a very weird shape, but, man, I really like it.

'''Myke Madison:''' So, I've got, like, wait, I've got an unconscionable number of those in my JetPens cart right now.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' I don't know why that's ringing a bell.

'''Myke Madison:''' Oh, yeah. They look like the, um, they're the Jelly Roll barrel. No, no. The Jelly Roll is, like, just a straight cylinder. The Sakura ball sign has, like, I don't know, it gets real, real tapered up toward the knock. And the, the, the grip section area is quite a lot fatter. So, it's kind of a fat skinny pen. And then it's got, like, a.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Oh, I see it. I see it now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, they have a standard one that is the Jelly Roll barrel. So, the ball sign knock, I have definitely used. It's okay. Like, I didn't like the, the shorty clip on it. I remember using this now. But the grip section and the writing, the, the refill that it uses were really good. I do remember that. It's ultra light, like, as you can imagine. So, yes, I have definitely used this one, the knock version. Yeah. Oh, I didn't even see the other version. So, yeah. I didn't either until I, I've seen, until I pulled that up. But then now I see the one you're talking about. And I've definitely reviewed that one. It's, it's like, good, not great, right? Like, it's a very good pen.

'''Myke Madison:''' Yeah. I'm, well, it's a, I think the one I have is a .4. And I, I usually go fatter than that. But this is a really good .4.



== CW&T Product Launch ==


'''Brad Dowdy:''' I'm, I've been liking it a lot. So, the micro gel talk puts us right into our next topic, which I can't not mention. It's kind of on brand for me. And that's anything CW&T does, who I love. And they just released their pen type C. Did you see this launch on Kickstarter recently? Yeah, I totally did. Now, looking at this pen and knowing sort of the age range you are, do you remember seeing pens like this when you were younger? And like, I don't know, they weren't even like at stationary shops. They were more like a gift shop pen, right? Where it had this flip over rail that protects like the tip of the pen. Do you recall ever seeing like that when you were growing up?

'''Myke Madison:''' So, that pen actually has come back. And it's called the Snappy. Snappy. Snappy. Yeah, here. I'll put it in the show notes. Yeah. Really quick. There's a link for you. Gotcha. Yeah, it's called the Snappy. And yeah, I definitely had a bunch of those, you know, around the house growing up, that sort of thing. Yeah. And it's a, it's a really cool idea. And I mean, this is, this pen type C seems like a titanium, like fancy version of the old

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Snappy. Right. So, that's what this is. It's like the fancy version of this pen that used to exist. And I'm sitting here fidgeting with it, with it in my hands. I have a couple of older prototypes. One, I think I've probably had for two years. They just sent it to me randomly a long time ago. And I, no joke, I've probably had it for two years and I keep it in my desk and, you know, I've taken it out here and there. And the original one that I have fit a D1 refill. And then they sent me a modified one that was just the, the original one was the titanium. The modified one, they just sent me a 3D printed model of a change size so they could use this Pilot Hitec C slim refill that they use now. And I don't know. I like it. It's not for everybody. Right. Just like we've talked about the 2-2 pin a bunch on the show. And I know you've reviewed one and, uh, and, uh, you know, it's very much along those lines to where it's a thin pin. You know, it's like a flat rectangle, right? Like, I don't even know how to explain it. But if you don't have a traditional grip, you're not gonna like holding one of these pins, right? That's probably true.

'''Myke Madison:''' It's, I mean, it's, it's weird, but those rectangular pins are the flat ones are just kind of strange, but, uh, yeah, I've always found them kind of oddly comfortable, honestly.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Right. That's how it is for me too. Like even the, when Moleskine came out with their pins a few years ago, they did a wider rectangular and it just works for me. Like my grip works well with a rectangular shape pin. So it can go, you know, with the wider rectangular blocky shape, or it could go with this thinner shape of the pin type C. So of course, like I'm way into this pin, you know, I, I don't have one with a clip on it. So I've, I backed it and I look forward to getting it and, um, yeah, I'll be all about it. Is the type C using the, the Coletto cartridge? It is not. So they have a high tech C, um, slim cartridge that it's actually using.

'''Myke Madison:''' If you're coming across a tiny version of the high tech C cartridge, the Coletto, we thought it'd be fun to make it. Huh?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Oh, I wonder if it doesn't look like the full link Coletto cartridge. So I'll have to look at it. I didn't double check through the, uh, through the, through the, uh, campaign. So they're calling it. Yeah, they are calling it the Coletto. But yeah, it's not as full. I get, I mean, without researching this at all, I know it's not the length of the Coletto. So, so maybe there's a shorter Coletto that I'm unaware of or something, but there's definitely a slim or I think it's called a slim. So we'll have to look it up. I'll put it in the show notes if I can find the version of it, but they have a small knock based single cartridge pilot high tech C. And that's what I was thinking this one was using.

'''Myke Madison:''' So maybe they're just taking the end off. Like looking at my Coletto cartridges, they've got this long, like, you know, color selector end, maybe they just take that off.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' And I don't, I don't know. Maybe so. Maybe so. Because the cartridge that I have in, um, in mine definitely has like the stop in it, you know, like the wax or whatever, you know, component is in there. Like it's not modified, but maybe it's just popped off the end of it. So let's see. So the slim knock uses a refill. Yeah. So there's a, uh, well, just like, just like Uniball pilot. LHSRF-8C gel pen refill. So that is for the, uh, high tech C slim knock. So I'm wondering if that's it. We'll look at it a little bit more. Um, so we'll see.

'''Myke Madison:''' Yeah.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Um, do you have any of the CW and T pens? Has that ever been a thing for you? Like it has been an obsession for me.

'''Myke Madison:''' No, I don't. Uh, I haven't. I don't love the, uh, the high tech C refill. Right. Right. They're always very like, I think the widest they get is a 0.5. That's sort of like the smallest I'll go.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. Yeah. So we got a question, which, um, as you'll see, as we go through this episode, Myke, we got a lot of questions. Yeah, we did. But this one from, uh, a cray says, what does Myke think of CW and T pens that we just found out and rank the A, B and C additions. So I can, I can handle that. It's, uh, pen type B is one and then nothing else matters. Um, really? The A is not that useful because it's strictly a desk pen and the C is just so highly specific. The B is so good. It's, it's the best by a long shot. Um, if you want something like if you're an engineer or a draftsman or something and you want the, the scale, the big aluminum scale on your desk, I guess the A is up your alley. And then, uh, the C is useful in particular situations, but the B I can use it all the time. That's my favorite.

'''Myke Madison:''' Is the ruler on the type A, like, is it, is it big? Is it too big to carry around?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Oh yeah. Yeah.

'''Myke Madison:''' Oh yeah.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' It doesn't look that much bigger than the B really. So. Oh yeah. It's, it's bigger. It's bigger and it, and it's pointy. So you like, can't really put it in your pocket or I don't know that you want to put it in a bag, right? It's, I won't say it's sharp, but it, you know, it has an edge to it. It's a block. I was going to go C, A, B, but I mean. Yeah. See, I'm all about the B because you can get, I have like a titanium sleeve and a brass sleeve and they just look cool. So I've used different, different types of sleeves on that. So that's good. We're, we, uh, we would rank completely differently and that's, uh, that's better than agreeing all the time in, in my book. And I think this next topic, Myke, um, before we move on is probably one we might disagree on to, not in what the topic is, but do you use field notes at all? Nope. Yep. So that's what I was thinking. So here's one, like Myke's looking at all these show notes, Brad put in here is like, yep, I don't do that. I don't do that. So let me ask you, do you use any type of pocket notebook regularly? Let's just, let's go that route.

'''Myke Madison:''' Uh, yeah, yeah. I like the, uh, I don't, so like, I'm not, I'm not really against field notes or whatever. It's just, uh, it's not the way I usually go for pocket notebooks. I, I mean, I appreciate their style and stuff, but, um, yeah, it's just not my, not my, my bag. Not your jam. Um, but like that's, that said, I don't think we're going to disagree about like the rest of the show note bit. Yeah. Yeah. This topic, but, um, yeah, yeah. I use, um, I generally like a top bound, uh, for, for my pocket carry mostly. Um, I've actually been carrying these things called, they're actually another right product that I just picked up in Baltimore, but this like totally different note, but the pocket flip book.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah.

'''Myke Madison:''' Cause it fits actually in my wallet. And so then I don't have to have two pockets with notebooks in them, you know?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah.

'''Myke Madison:''' Uh, but yeah, otherwise I carry around like, uh, I don't know, like one of those smallish rodeo pads. It fits in my back pocket, that kind of thing. Cool. But, uh, yeah, yeah.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Field notes. Yeah. So we have to, we have to mention this because, you know, like I said, we got to stay on brand here at the pen addict podcast, but like you say, not every product's for everyone. And that's what we try to explain to people, you know, just because I like something or Myke likes something or Myke likes something, you know, you may not like any of it, but what we wanted to mention was I was asked about the field notes subscription price increase and they went from $97 for their annual subscription, which is four quarterly releases, two packs of notebooks, or sometimes they change it up and change the sizes. So it's not always two packs necessarily, but they went from $97 to $110. And that's the first time they've raised the price in the decade, in a decade. And it's like, they almost don't even have to, like they have to tell you, but it's so insignificant based over the history of the brand. They haven't increased the prices very much. They increased their three pack prices last year for the non craft three packs to $12.95, a three pack. I'm surprised they didn't increase the subscription price then. So this is kind of a no brainer. It doesn't really even move the needle for me, but I was asked about it multiple times. And it's just, yeah, I think, I don't think they're getting a lot of complaints out of this based on the value that you get. And it's still a really good deal for if you're into that type of thing for the notebooks.

'''Myke Madison:''' Yeah, right. Like I don't subscribe because frankly, I don't go through that many notebooks in a year. Right. But also like an increase of $13 over a year. I mean, whatever, people who are buying a field note subscription aren't going to care that much about a dollar a month.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yep.

'''Myke Madison:''' Yep. It's very, very minimal. Very inconsequential.



== New Products Introduction ==


'''Brad Dowdy:''' All right. We have more new products to talk about. We're going to talk about pen shows. I have some knock news to share that might shock you. But first I need to talk about our good friends at Express VPN. This episode of the Pen Attic Podcast is brought to you by Express VPN. Sometimes cybercrime seems like something from the movies. It's hard to imagine someone trying to get a hold of your information. But stealing data using public Wi-Fi is an easy way for the bad guys to make money. And it happens to normal people like me and you. If you leave your internet connection unencrypted, your passwords and credit card numbers could be vulnerable. But there's something you can do to protect yourself from cybercriminals. Start using Express VPN. Not tomorrow or sometime next week. Today. Express VPN works by securing and anonymizing your internet browsing. It encrypts your data and hides your public IP address. With easy to use apps that run seamlessly in the background of your device. You can turn on Express VPN protection with just one click. Then you're free to safely surf on public Wi-Fi without being snooped on or having your personal data stolen. Express VPN is rated the number one VPN service by TechRadar. It even comes with a 30-day money back guarantee. Now, Myke, I travel a pretty good amount. And I was happy to pony up. I'd always used a VPN when I travel for different Wi-Fis. And I was happy to give Express VPN a try. And I'm super happy with it. It really is. After you install it, it really is one click to protect you. That's it. Even on your mobile devices, on your laptop, tablets, anything. So for less than $7 a month, you can get the same Express VPN protection that I have. If you ever use public Wi-Fi and want to keep the bad guys away from your data, you need Express VPN. So go to expressvpn.com to learn more. Protect your online activity today and find out how you can get three months free at expressvpn.com slash pinaddict. That's E-X-P-R-E-S-S-V-P-N.com slash pinaddict for three months free with a one-year package. Our thanks to Express VPN for their support of the pinaddict and all of Relay FM. So as always, putting together the show notes, I knew we had a couple of new things to talk about. And then our good friend, Anna Reiner from the Well-Appointed Desk, dropped an Instagram post about her new coloring oversize. I guess we would call this not quite a notebook sketchbook. It's basically coloring on steroids. And it's awesome. What do you think about this product? Yeah.

'''Myke Madison:''' And my immediate response to that was, I want this. It's so good. Also, in thinking about it, I'm like, what am I going to do with this? I don't care. I'm going to get one. Because, I mean, the coloring stuff is really good paper. And I really like Anna and her husband. And they do a great job putting that stuff together. So, yeah.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' So, I was scrolling back through your Ink Dependence blog, which we'll go through where to find Myke online. But you can go to inkdependence.com, among other places, and see a lot of ink reviews. And you use a lot of different coloring products. You use the coloring. You use the color decks. Do I have this right? Yeah. That's, I think, 100% of the coloring products. Yeah. So, now there's a third one. I'm pretty sure this is going to be in your workflow, right?

'''Myke Madison:''' Probably. So, I mean, like you, I only saw this yesterday or today. I think it was last night, maybe. Yeah. But, yeah. I'm sure I'm going to figure out something to do with it. I don't really know what yet.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah.

'''Myke Madison:''' But, yeah. I really like the color decks cards are my go-to now. Gotcha. I was using the Moramon Nemosyne cards a long time ago, as was everybody else. And then those went away. And then coloring cards are definitely a step up from those. And the color decks cards are really great. I got a couple of Rolodexes full of color decks cards and coloring cards over here. Yeah.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' They're great things. Yeah. So, I'm a color ring user, and I really enjoy it. And the Oversize, it's definitely going to feel kind of sketchbook-y, right? Because this paper is thick. That's the idea behind this coloring. It's for heavy, you know, ink sampling. But you can use it for general writing, regular sketching, you know, anything you want to do. So, it'll be interesting to see how people choose to use the Oversize. And I think that's what's cool about this product, is it will have kind of less rules, maybe, than what we see in the standard color ring or color decks cards, right? Your space is limited there. So, I have a feeling we'll see some pretty neat stuff with the Oversize. So, I think they're launching at the St. Louis Pen Show here in a couple weeks. So, that should be cool.

'''Myke Madison:''' The paper's not really all that thick. I mean, it's 100-pound paper. It's not like it's cardstock. So, I mean, I could... I'm trying to figure out what I'm going to do with this thing, just looking at it. I'm like, man, I don't know. But I am... Like you said, I'm really excited to see what other people do with it. Yep. That'll help me figure out what to do with it.



== Pen Shows Discussion ==


'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. So, like I mentioned, they're going to launch in St. Louis. And that brings us to our next topic, Myke, Pen Shows. So, I know you go to a lot of Pen Shows per year. How many Pen Shows a year do you think you go to? Let's see.

'''Myke Madison:''' I've been to five so far this year. Whoa. And I've got... At least, what, three more. So, that's seven this year. And that's maybe... That's about average. Yeah. So, why do you go? Why do you like to go to the Pen Shows? I mean, Pen Shows, for me, are really about people.

'''Myke Madison:''' I do... I work for a few of them. So, just sort of full disclosure, my wife, Audrey, is the nib doctor over at Franklin Christophe. And so, I'm super lucky to get to go to a lot of shows because, I mean, I can stay in a room with her. So, that's paid for by the companies. That helps me with a lot of expense. And I usually... I'll travel with them if they're driving or I'll just drive out there. Because living on the East Coast, I have access driving-wise to a lot of different Pen Shows. So, super lucky in a lot of ways to get to go to Pen Shows. But, man, Pen Shows, for me, are not really about shopping so much. So, I remember when I first started going to Pen Shows and I'd put up these Pen Show reports and, like, you know, a bunch of pictures and all this kind of stuff. And be like, yeah, I went to a Pen Show. I was there for about an hour. Found a Pen. Left. Like, I don't understand why it's great. And I'm like, well, it's because you're doing Pen Shows wrong. I mean, if you just go there to shop, like, if you treat a Pen Show like a trip to Target, then I think you're not really taking advantage of what the Pen Show offers. Which is a chance to, you know, meet and commune and talk to people who are kind of like you in a way that a lot of other people aren't, right? If you're a Pen Show person, you're probably psyched about stationery and pens and inks and all this other kind of jazz that we're into. And then you go to work and everybody's like, oh, look at your ridiculous pen, you know?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah, the way I try to explain it for people who don't really have that experience is you get to say a lot of things out loud that you don't normally get to say in your day-to-day life, right? Like, you get to talk about nibs and pen colors and wild inks. And these are normally, you know, when you're at home, these are conversations you probably only have in your head. And now you get to have them with other people and they're on the same wavelength and they can help you figure things out kind of, you know, that you're looking for. And yeah, I mean, I totally agree with the aspect of it. You know, definitely there's vendors there that are there to sell and make money and, you know, a lot of it is buy pens. But it's about so much more than that. And it's just the atmosphere and the people. And I know not everyone can like spend like an entire day at a show or much less multiple days. But if you ever get that opportunity, I think it's certainly, certainly well worth that experience. Yeah, definitely. And I'm not saying don't buy stuff at 10 shows. No, no, no, no. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, right. But yeah, I'm the same way. Like I used to go with a shopping list, right? And now I go with no list. And, you know, maybe I'll find something. Maybe I don't. But usually I do end up finding something. But, you know, I'm not like necessarily. I mean, let's face it. We have lots of access to lots of things these days. So, you know, we get a lot. Sometimes we get different things from being in person at a pen show, which is, you know, getting to see other people, meet other people, test out other products, find out, you know, about other things and learn and educate. Have you noticed anything different this year or in the past year or two than in the how long have you been attending pen shows? Oh, I don't know. Yeah. Like probably six or eight years. Yeah. I think that's probably probably about same here. And I was just wondering, like, you've been to a lot this year, probably a lot last year. Like, do you notice anything with the crowds, the vendors, the shows, the promoters that you like or even dislike or that's been new this year and what pen shows you've attended?

'''Myke Madison:''' Yeah, sure. I mean, I think the biggest difference is sort of a demographic difference. I mean, when I've and man, maybe I've been going to pen shows for more like a decade. It's been a while. But yeah, like the demographic is definitely changing the pen show. Like it used to just be like, I don't know, mostly older white dudes. And it's not really that anymore. You have a lot more like a younger demographic and you have more women and you have more, you know, more of everything, really, which is kind of great. And that's with just vendors and also attendees. I mean, maybe you've noticed the same kinds of things.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. I was going to say, can we say thank goodness, right? I mean, as two white dudes here, it's like I couldn't be happier to see way less old white dudes at the pen show. So the demographic has totally changed and I love it. And I think that's what makes it the most fun for me is seeing just the wide range of people from all backgrounds coming to the show. And a lot of them learning about pens for the first time. We have the amount of new people that are still attending. Like every show I go to, the amount of new people that's their first pen show, it seems like it increases to me, which I think is fantastic. Like that's a pretty neat, neat feeling to have people come up to you and say, hey, this is my first pen show and what should I do?

'''Myke Madison:''' Yeah, I actually get that a lot too. That's and I think some of that's because, you know, they'll see, you know, a video or something. Like I do a pen show walk around video on Fridays at pen shows and sort of give a tour of the place and introduce people to vendors and products and, you know, show people where things are and that kind of thing. And I've had a bunch of people come up and say, hey, you know, without videos like that, I wouldn't have come to a pen show. I'd be too like, I don't know, nervous or uninspired or I don't know, whatever it is that keeps people from, you know, going out to a pen show. And I hope that as the demographics change and as more and more people are going to pen shows, more and more people will be encouraged to go to pen shows, you know.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' I love your videos. I think that's one of the neatest things that anyone does like in our little space. Oh, thanks, man. Yeah, it's just so fun. And it's like it's real, right? It's unscripted. You don't know who you're going to run into, what you're going to run into. And I was wondering, do any vendors give you the stink eye when you're walking around with a camera and a little microphone pointing at them?

'''Myke Madison:''' Definitely.

'''Myke Madison:''' So, like there have been a couple of people who will kind of wave me off and usually they're, I mean, some people just don't want to be on camera. And I try as much as possible to be respectful of that. I know a few people, they're like, look, I don't want to be on camera. And so I avoid them. Yeah. And then sometimes people will see me coming and like they kind of know what I'm up to because I've been doing it for, I don't know, a year or two now, I guess. And if they don't, they're like, I'd rather not have that. Just kind of wave me off and I'll go around them. But the majority of vendors have been like, I've really been enjoying it. And I've talked to a bunch of them afterwards who have said things like, you know, thanks so much for stopping by and, you know, giving people a chance to see what I have. And some people have said, hey, I've noticed that I actually sell more stuff after you do a video. I'm like, well, I don't like that might be connected. I hope it is. Right. You know, I just want to show people that there are things because, man, if you're walking into your first or heck, even third pen show, you're walking into a sea of tables. And I mean, the average pen show has a hundred something tables, which isn't huge for a lot of trade shows. But if you're just walking into a pen show for the first time, it's just a sea of tables and it all sort of blends together and you have no idea what you're walking into sometimes. And so I think the video helps break it down and make it a little bit more granular. And so people will be more tempted to look at a table rather than just like walk past in a daze.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. And I think it's really cool that the vendors are open to doing this type of thing. Like that's a change for them too, right? Like we're not the only ones seeing change the vendors that, you know, don't, you know, who aren't really online as much as you and I are. And, you know, don't participate in social media and do all these things, Instagram, whatever. And, you know, looking at you from like, what is this guy doing to say, hey, this is kind of cool that other people can see what I'm doing and want to be a part of that. I think that's really, really neat. So I think it's, I think it's really awesome what you're, what you're doing with that. And I'm not going to lie, when you come up, I see you so much at pen shows generally. Like when we're there, we're there, we're seeing each other for like three and four days at a time. So I forget usually on Friday afternoon when you're rolling over with like your camera, I don't notice you. I think it's just Myke coming over to talk to me. So it always takes me about 10 seconds to realize I'm actually being recorded because I'm just used to talking to you anyway. Right. Yep. So on the, on the pen show discussion to wrap this up, what would you like to see changed or see more of at a pen show? Do you have an ideal pen show in your head? Like what would make it perfect for you?

'''Myke Madison:''' Ah, you know, I saw that in the show notes. I'm like, oh man, I got a couple of mean questions in here. That's one of them. Yeah, that's a tough one, man. I, I mean, there are some things that I, that I've seen at pen shows that I do really like. I mean, I like it when a pen show has some room to it. You don't, some of them are very cramped and they get crowded and it's just kind of uncomfortable. Um, so I like, I like a nice wide aisle. They had those in Raleigh. They had them at the old, uh, Philly show. Uh, Baltimore has some pretty good aisle space. Um, so that means that you can be looking at a table and somebody could be behind you looking at a table on the opposite side. And like a third person can walk in between. Yeah. That's, that's, that's really all I want.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' That's a big deal. That's like no joke.

'''Myke Madison:''' That turn, that changes people's attitudes, right? Yeah. And there've been a couple of pen shows where they have, um, they just sort of have tables interspersed where you can like relax, sit out your stuff, talk to a friend, show somebody a pen or a new ink or something, uh, write a note. I really like when that's available. So you don't have to leave the whole ballroom situation, you know, but this, that sort of thing requires a lot of room. And so, you know, my perfect pen show is an absurdly large room with a couch, a bunch of couches. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I want, and like, I was, I was sort of, I was sort of mulling this over and I was thinking, you know, what we need at pen shows are we need a good mix of modern stuff, vintage stuff, uh, grinders and repair folk.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah.

'''Myke Madison:''' And some pen shows have all of those things. Um, others like you might be missing one or two and that's kind of a big loss. You know, you'll have people that come in like, you know, I drove two hours to get this, you know, this pen fix. Like, oh yeah, we don't, I don't really have any repair folks. Like, yeah, he's could make it in Zorn couldn't make it in Martin's not here and, and that sort of thing. And it's like, oh man, then they like kind of leave disappointed and that sucks.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Or even if you just have one of those, like you need multiple of each like kind of discipline because when you have one, then they get overloaded, right? And the person that just came up for Saturday afternoon, well, guess what? There's a list of front in front of you, right? So it's the same type of situation. So I'm with you on the space and you know, it wouldn't be fair to just leave, leave this question all on you. So, uh, yeah, yeah. What's your favorite, what's your perfect pen show, Brad? You know, I'd like, I'd like more time for education, but I like classes and just learning and things like that for new and experienced users. But I have such a challenge with even saying that out loud. Because it takes away from floor time for, you know, like vendors come there to sell things, right? They're paying, they have expenses to cover us, right? So what I'm saying would take some of that away, maybe, but I don't know. I don't know if there's a happy balance for what that is. And, you know, then you're in up into like multiple, multiple day shows. And I don't know, it's a little bit more, you know, of a convention than a pen show. And then would you have buy-in from vendors? So I, I struggle with that like concept, um, a lot. And so I, I don't know that I have a good answer, but I do like the answers that you gave just for like, just the general flow of the shows. So I would like to see that, but. Have you ever taken a class at a pen show? Once. So like, that's, I'm going to try to do that. I don't know if I'm going to make it this year, but next year I'm going to try to go to one or two pen shows where I don't work. So to where I can just do that. Right. So the only time I've been able to do that is at the little rock pen show where I go and I don't work and I've taken like a, um, a maintenance, like a general maintenance, maintaining pens class there. And otherwise I haven't. And that's the one thing I personally miss like that. I don't get the opportunity to do. Um, cause I'm generally working like for knock and stuff. So I don't know. It's a, it's one of those pipe dream things. I don't know if it's like a completely separate thing that's not vendor based at all. Right. Where it's just more of like a fountain pen education thing for like a day or two where you get all kinds of, you know, different, um, different teachers into, to do things. And yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I haven't totally flushed that out how that would work, but that's where my head is sometimes. Yeah. Right. All right. Related to this pen show discussion, I need to give everyone some not co news. We had talked about, and I talked about on this show and publicly about attending DC. We are not going to attend the Washington DC pen show this year. So I'm super sorry to all of our customers and fans that wanted to see us there. Check out the not co table. I guess we've been there three, four years in a row right now, but I'm just buried. Like I'm not going to be, I think from now until DC, I have one weekend at home and it's just wearing me out. So I'm going to San Francisco at the end of August. So I needed a break before I get into there. So Jeff and I talked about it and we decided not to go to the DC pen show this year, which stinks. So we'll see about next year. We'll see how things go with the show. It's always a great show just from like sales perspective. So it's kind of hard to like logically miss that as a business. Right. But at the same time, it is super exhausting and I'll be heading into it just drained to begin with. So I wasn't exactly looking forward to that. So it's a personal decision kind of on my part, you know, to, to not go this year just to get a break in before San Francisco, because leading up until DC is just going to be a hot mess for me. So self-inflicted busyness, but that's okay. But sometimes things have to give another thing that had to give. And this is probably like a bigger topic than us not going to DC is knock is not going to wholesale products to retailers anymore. So this was kind of a long time discussion Jeff and I had been having. The short version is the margins are pretty bad and it's not sustainable for us to keep knock running smoothly and efficiently like it has in the past. So we have lots of inventory up and downs and don't have the margins to cover those wild swings. So our retail partners have been completely amazing, like supporting us over all the years. They've taken less margin themselves because our margins are so bad. They've accepted less margins just to carry our stuff, which is a big deal, like for have your vendors like support you in that kind of way. So I just wanted to thank them. So, you know, nothing's changing for knock except that we hope that Jeff and I can get back into being faster and have quicker turnaround on products and have more new colors and more new styles in faster time frames rather than having big, huge, like color runs that takes us months and months and months and maybe a year to sell through and can't turn over that product line as quickly. So that's our goal is to get back to turning over our product line more quickly to have more colors to create new designs, one of which we have in the hopper right now. Hopefully it's done for San Francisco. And yeah, just kind of get back to the me and Jeff model and focusing on what we're what we think we're really good at is creating cool products and having real fun with the colors. And, you know, hopefully our customers will like that. So it'll be a direct to consumer business going forward. And like I said, I can't thank our wholesalers enough, our retail partners. They've been just awesome to work with. So if y'all have any questions, y'all can always reach out to me online. You know, nothing's really changing like for our customer or anything like that. It's just it'll all start going through us now and maybe it'll allow us to be a little bit quicker on our feet, if you will, because we've been feeling a little bit sluggish turning over our products recently. And we want to we want to keep things fresh faster. So we're going to work on that going forward. All right. Big news there, Myke.



== Personal Gear Selection ==


'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah, thanks. Thanks. Thanks for letting me like I could not drop it on you. Let's drop two bombs in the middle of the episode. In the middle of the episode on Myke. But hey, it's got to get out there. And I figure, you know, around the pen show discussion, it would be had. So speaking of pen shows, Myke, you can have a pen show online at our friends at Pen Chalet. So this episode of the Pen Attic is brought to you by Pen Chalet. They sell authentic, amazing rollerballs, fountain pens, ballpoints, mechanical pencils and so much more. They have all of your favorite brands like Monteverde, Pelican, Lamy, Pilot, Namiki, Sailor and Kaweco and are, of course, an authorized dealer. They have fast and reliable customer service. They run special discounts twice a month, including closeout specials every two weeks. They're always adding new styles of pens every month, as well as the brands I mentioned earlier. Pen Chalet sells limited edition pens and all the accessories you need, like pen carrying cases, pen holders, refills, fountain pen converters and so much more. They have free shipping on orders over $50 in the US, but they also sell internationally with very reasonable shipping rates. Pen Chalet has low prices on high quality pens and offer a 100% satisfaction guarantee. So go to penchalet.com and click the podcast link at the top of the website. Enter the password for penaddict for this week's special offer and get the code you need to save 10% on anything at Pen Chalet. So, Myke, this is the time where I go to penchalet.com and I click on the button radio podcast and I put in the word. You see, usually I do this while Myke's reading, but this time I had to read it. Man, I'm way ahead of you. I've been browsing these offers while you've been talking. All right. So they're on it, like right out the gate. I see one of my personal favorite pens, Myke, the Pelican M101 in gray blue. It's this year's model. I really like that pen. They also have the Diplomat Excellence. I know you're a diplomat. I know you're a big Diplomat fan, right?

'''Myke Madison:''' I am. Yeah. And they've got that brass excellence in the A2, which is a really nice slip cap pen.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. Yeah. So they got, as always, they have a wonderful selection of special products. Head over to Pen Chalet and check them out. Use the offer code PENADDICT in the radio podcast link. And thanks so much to Pen Chalet for sponsoring Relay FM and The Pen Addict. All right, Myke. So we talk about a lot of pens and a lot of stationery. And I know when we see each other, there's another thing that we talk about. Hey, what's that? What's that bag you got there? What bag are you carrying today, Myke? You have a bag problem. I'm just going to lay it out there. You have a bag problem. And I say that lovingly because I have a bag problem too. So why? You seem to be recovering for your bag problem though, whereas I feel like I am not.

'''Myke Madison:''' Yeah. I mean, well, so for those of you who don't know out there, my full-time job is I'm a college professor. And so that means I'm on campuses. It means I'm going from building to building and office to car. I have to carry a bunch of stuff. And so the reason I have a bunch of different bags is that it depends on what I'm carrying as to what a good method is. Or sometimes I have to dress up. So I need something that looks a little bit fancier. Or sometimes I'm just going like incognito student style. And I'm wearing a hoodie and jeans. And I just need like a sling or a messenger to go with that. But I've got to carry books. I've got to carry notebooks. I've got to carry a computer. I've got to carry all my bag of necessary stuff. The Chase Reeves always got to have you never want to see you bag that goes from bag to bag with me. So I mean, I feel like there are a lot of different use cases. And that's why I end up with a lot of different bags. Plus, I mean, they're cool, man. Yeah.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' You know, this sounds a lot like picking out the pen that you need. A lot of pens fit a lot of different situations. And man, they're cool. So you end up with too many of them. So what kind of things have you been carrying recently? Because I guess in all the years I've known you and the same goes for me, we have bag turnover, just like pen turnover. So we don't ask like, what are you carrying? We ask, what are you carrying now? Like, what's the current setup for your bags? What are you liking?

'''Myke Madison:''' So I've got like three that I've been in pretty heavy rotation right now. The first is my nomadic backpack, which I got as a Kickstarter, I don't know, a year and a half ago or something like that. And it's kind of a slick kind of techie looking, you know, black on black bag. It's like very structured. So it stands up on its own. It's got a zillion compartments for all my junk. And it's really kind of my favorite backpack at the moment. And I've only, I was looking through my collection of bags and I've only got like two backpacks right now. And the other is an Osprey that I've had forever and those things never wear out. But that's more, you know, I don't know, kind of outdoorsy technical looking than the nomadic. And then I've used a couple of messengers. I've been using this Rickshaw medium zero messenger for, I don't know, maybe two years ish, I guess. Yeah, something like that. And it's it's kind of the perfect size for just going to class like it carries my my MacBook, it carries a couple of notebooks, it carries my planner set up, you know, all that kind of jazz. I just throw it in there. It's very comfortable and nicely organized for me. And then the one that I carry when I need to carry a lot of stuff and I don't feel like carrying a whole backpack is I've got this peak design everyday messenger. And I forget what the size is, but it's the bigger one. So I bought that secondhand from my friend Jim. And so it's like been to the top of mountains and all kinds of crazy stuff. But that thing is so versatile and awesome.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' So, yeah. So I the bigger backpacks like I go in and out of like bigger stuff to carry all the things smaller stuff to carry a few things. That's why I kind of like what you said about the Rickshaw Medium Zero. It's kind of like the just right for just enough type of stuff. So like and I've gone through, as you mentioned, you know, I've I've called my my bag and backpack herd a little bit. What's left? I have like two bags left. I have a brown buffalo conceal bag and the Patagonia kind of like the briefcase backpack style one, which I'm surprised I didn't sell that one. Yeah, but I I'll just have to I just, you know, got to got to promote them. But I I sold most of my bags because I decided that the Tom Benz Synapse 25 liter was going to be the one bag essentially for my backpack carry, even though like I'll admit I kept two bags behind a bow your bullpup and a Topo Designs dome paper mountain briefcase. Both of those for like specific, very specific reasons. Like they're very I don't know. I just think they're cool stories behind them. Like the the bow gear is like a very highly custom that they never offered. And the Topo and don't paper one is just cool because it's stationary theme. But what I carry every day now is the Tom Benz Synapse and it holds a lot of stuff. And I had ordered the 19 a while back. And that's just like I've told you in person. It looks like the little Hello Kitty backpack on on my back. You know, I'm broad shouldered and Sam. Yeah. Yeah. You and I have the kind of the same fit on our across our backs and you need a little bit wider strap, bigger bag. And the Tom Benz Synapse is going to be it for me. Hopefully it feels like it like I took it on a trip this weekend and it just holds all the things like correctly. And I like it a lot. So did you did you take that as like a one bag carry? I didn't just because my wife was taking a suitcase. So I just threw a bunch of clothes. Yeah. So this carried like I had to carry I carried a laptop and iPad, a Yeti microphone, like a bunch of notebooks. And it was just maybe half full, like if that. So it was good. It worked out well for that, although it was heavy. Like that was too much stuff. I wouldn't normally carry like a microphone. But I had a I had a portable recording session that I needed to do. I'll be on. Stay tuned for the 1857 podcast next week for all you listeners out there. I'll be a guest on there. So we recorded that earlier this week. But yeah, it's I think it's going to be good. Like I'm very content with it in that I can just have it be the one. And like you said, the the what is the Chase Reeves like the hidden bag called? Like I was tired of chasing that all over the house, right? Because it would end up in bag. Then I'd switch bags and forget which bag it was in. And I have to keep finding it and relocating it to the current bag. So it's like I need the one bag. So that's the one for now. Awesome. The other thing I use on an almost daily basis, but for different reasons, is the brown buffalo tote. And actually, they don't have this model listed on their site right now, but they have a different tote bag listed. This is a mega heavy duty. Like it's almost like a tarp material that I just use to carry like all of my shipping stuff. Anytime I'm shipping knock or pen addict or spoke pens, like I'll load that thing down and take it to the post office. And that's a daily use bag for me. It's like a 30 liter tote bag, something like that. Very heavy duty, like very over built and over killed, but I kind of love it and I use it every day. So trying to stick with those. I can't guarantee it, right? There's no guarantees in bags, just like there's no guarantees in pens and paper and stationery, right? Yeah. Well, your use case might change, you know, and you'll need a new thing. At least that's our excuse. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. But Myke, Moo, there's no, we don't need to make excuses for Moo because they're an awesome company and you know about them. And we're going to talk about that in a minute. So this episode of the pen addict is brought to you by Moo. Moo is an online print and design company specializing in customizable business cards, postcards, stickers, and more for your business. You don't want to get caught out by not having a business card at that important moment. And with Moo, you can be prepared to show your creativity whenever the opportunity arrives. The quality of Moo's business cards is one of a kind. And with special finishes like gold foil, raised spot gloss, and letterpress, Moo's business cards are so unique, help get your business to stand out from the crowd. But if you are not into designing your own card, Moo recently rolled out new templates for business cards, drawing inspiration from trends they've seen amongst their most creative customers. Even though business cards are Moo's core product, their full suite of products includes postcards, invitations, letterhead, stickers, and flyers, allowing you to seamlessly promote your brand. They even make amazing quality notebooks available in both soft cover and hard cover. Whatever you need, Moo have you covered with their easy customization options. And if you're not familiar with Moo, you can order a free sample pack on their website to try out their different products. So now, Myke, you mentioned, and I didn't know this going into it, your business cards come from Moo. How is that?

'''Myke Madison:''' They're great. I've been using Moo for several years, ever since I've been getting business cards, really, and business, like my blog cards. And they have these ones that are made out of like recycled t-shirt material. And I found out you could write on those with fountain pens.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' And so that was an instant buy for me. Whoa. Okay. Now that sounds like something I need to get into. And if you need to get into that, you can go to Moo.com and find out more. Get 15% off your order when you spend $50 or more by using the code PRINTMOO at checkout. Once again, that's the code PRINTMOO to get 15% off when you spend $50 or more at Moo.com. Our thanks to Moo for their support of the pen addict and all of Relay FM. Moo. Let's get physical. Wow. So, yes, we need to get some physical business cards made, Myke. So, I will work on that. Now, when we set up this episode, or I guess I should say when I pressured you into doing this episode at the last minute, I kind of panicked, right? It's like, you know, I know what we can talk about, but I have to change the direction a little bit. So, what do we do when we need a little help filling out show topics? We ask the listeners. And in this case, Myke, the listeners... The listeners hooked us up. The listeners came through. So, I apologize in advance that not only did I not copy down all the questions because there were so many of them, Myke and I went through and called them even further. So, we weren't here for two hours today. But the questions were amazing, and I really appreciate everyone sending them in to us. So, we have quite a list here that we're going to try to get through, some quicker than others. But I think it's going to be fun. So, you ready for this? Yeah, let's go. All right. This one's from Twitter. F-Z-N-L-A-M. Ask TPA. If you were going to Mars and could bring along two pens and a bottle of ink, as well as one notebook, what would be your go-to for reliability and writing pleasure? This is a very loaded question, which is why I left it. Like, it's very basic or extremely specific, depending on how you wanted to take it.

'''Myke Madison:''' Yeah. I mean, do you want to go first? Do you want me to? You go for it on this one. All right. So, as far as a couple of pens, they said two pens and a bottle of ink. So, I guess I'm going to go two fountain pens, because, you know, why not? So, first, I got to get a sentimental pen, which is this Franklin Kristoff Panther 40 that Audrey got me years and years ago, way before she was associated with Franklin Kristoff. And I love that pen. It's got a bit of a personal story. And second, probably a diplomat arrow, because everybody knows I love those things. And probably, like, the new Volute one that I just got, because it reminds me that water exists. And then, for a bottle of ink, I mean, you got to go volume if you're stranded there, right? So, or you're going to be there for a couple of years anyway. So, I'm going to go with one of those giant jugs of, like, Pilot Blue Black or something. Oh, man, you got me on that one. And then, for a notebook, like, the user didn't say what size notebook. So, I'm going to go with this Rodia dot pad, but, like, the number 38 one, which is an A3, because I feel like that'll get, that'll give me enough paper.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah, that's a good call. Like, you don't have to be portable. You might be, like, stuck in a bubble. So, you can have a big pad to spread out, right? Yeah, right. So, I'm going to go with the Pilot 823 for a fountain pen. And then, I'm going to go with my County Comm Embassy pen for a Fisher Space Pen refill. I just kind of have a feeling that might come in handy a little bit. Because you're in space. Yeah.

'''Myke Madison:''' Oh, why didn't I think of that? Yeah.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' So, like, it could be kind of tricky. And I don't know exactly what situations I'll run across in Mars. And I might want that. And we'll see how that goes. And to fill it up, fill up the fountain pen, I was thinking Pilot Iroshizuku Shinkai. But, man, the giant bottle of blue-black is the correct answer, I think. Like, that, because I, number one, because I love that ink. And number two, that's a lot of ink. So, as far as the notebook, I'm actually not as particular on that. And I would probably have gone for, like, the Rodia A4 pad, which is something that just lives on my desk. And I use it just constantly for everything. So, you know, I think those are reliable pens. And I like yours that you had a little story, right, with yours. So, it'll give you, like, some good memories. You know, what if you're on Mars alone? You know, you might want some good thoughts up there, right? So, speaking of Audrey, this is from BeCouncil87. Now that she's at Franklin Christophe, do you get free grinds on your pens?

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yes.

'''Myke Madison:''' I would hope so. Absolutely. I know Audrey is a really, she is a really good nib grinder. And so, if I ever have a pen that doesn't work well, instead of screwing it up myself, I will give it to her and she will make it excellent. Yeah. I did recently try to fix a pen and kind of messed it up. So, like, before I mess this up any worse, I'm just going to let Audrey deal fix it for me. Yeah.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' She's the best and I love her work. And, like, I'll just buy nibs to have nibs and let her grind them just so I have them to put in my other, frankly, Christophe pens. Since we're on this topic, not in the list, do you have a favorite nib grind? Is there a preference that you say you have a majority of over other nib grinds?

'''Myke Madison:''' Probably by volume. It's going to be like a broad sig, which is the Franklin Christophe custom grind. It's in between an italic and a stub. Yeah. Yeah. Something like that. Broad stub, broad sig, something like that.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. One of my favorites, except I would do it probably on a fine. That's the one where, like, you like a little bit broader lines and I like a little bit finer lines, but we both like that same grind. That grind really, really works for me. All right. Our friend, Mr. Jonathan Brooks, wants to know, with all of your inky experience, what's your most sought-after ink characteristic? Sheen, shading, saturation, color? What do you look for in a good ink for you personally?



== Ink Properties and Colors ==


'''Myke Madison:''' For me, it's going to be saturation and shading. I like saturated inks, but I also like them to shade if possible. But, like, the other one that's not listed there and most people don't think about too much is feel. I like an ink that feels, like, thick and smooth. I hate it when inks feel dry and grainy.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Like, I just, ugh. You can tell, right? Like, when you're, after you've used a few inks, you can go, oh, this one feels different, right? There's noticeable things. Yeah. I'll never forget when I first started using fountain pens regularly. I didn't know what shading was. Like, I was, I was like, why are my lines darker in some areas and lighter in other areas? Like, I used to have to ask about that. And nowadays, that's, like, my favorite thing, to have that type of character in a line. Yeah, I just love, I love seeing that. This is a tough question. This is one of those unfair questions that I put in, because I don't know how I would answer this totally. But Blakemore wants to know, what's one trend in fountain pens that you like and one trend that you dislike?

'''Myke Madison:''' Man, that's a tough one.

'''Myke Madison:''' Yeah, I don't know. Like, some of the things I really like in fountain pens that are starting to happen more are I like to see interesting filling systems. And I like to be able to see them. So, I really, I like demonstrators. I know that's kind of polarizing. Like, some people feel like they look a little bit cheap, and other people, like me, like to see the inner workings of a thing. So, those are things I'm into. But trends that I don't like.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah, that's a tough one. Like, I'm not even sure I have one for that either.

'''Myke Madison:''' Like, I mean, I can throw one out there, but it's going to start some fights. I mean. That is, there's too much purple right now. Too much purple. I can't purple.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Oh, see, I'll, okay. See, I'll fight with you right there. Like, outside of orange, like, purple is probably, like, my number two shade. So, like, I'm okay with the purple. But it does tend to go in cycles, right? Just like, the fountain pens seem to be whatever hot color is the year after the Pantone color of the year. Like, we've gone through, like, mints and corals and salmons. And, like, last year was a dark purple. So, now all the pens are purple this year. So, you know, maybe that's it. The one trend I like, and I think you're on board with, is, like, the highly customizable, like, materials and just wild things that we see that are not necessarily, like, straight up traditional type of pens. That there's an opportunity to get something, like you were talking about, your Panther material, like, from Franklin Kristoff or something. That really kind of fits you and your personality. And you can really match pens up to those type of things. And then find an ink to go with it, too. So, as far as... Yeah, and, like, Brooks, who we just mentioned, is great at making those materials. Exactly. So, that's a trend that I think is here to stay, like, the highly customizable stuff. So... I like that so much, I didn't even think of it as a trend. Right? Like, I agree with that, right? Like, to me, that's what I look for. Like, that's my normal. But in the big picture of things, it's definitely a trend, I think. And it's one that's growing. All right. This one brings in your teaching experience a little bit. Do you incorporate... This is from Astro Noir. Do you incorporate your love of pens, ink, and paper into your philosophy teaching?

'''Myke Madison:''' I don't know if I do it into my teaching. Definitely into my prep and those kinds of things. And I definitely use that kind of stuff in class. So, sometimes we have projectors and that sort of thing that can project your writing on the screen or whatever. And I'll use fountain pens. And sometimes I'll get comments about it. Oh, nice. I've had students go, wow, that's a really cool pen. I'm like, yeah, see me after class. Or after a course, sometimes students are like, you know, I saw you using fountain pens this semester. And I went and looked into fountain pens. And now I've got, you know, two Lamy All-Stars or something like that. So, yeah, I've spread a little bit of that. But I don't use it in examples and stuff very often. Sometimes in talking about value and price and these sorts of things, when I'm doing business ethics or marketing sorts of situations, I'll bring some of that in. But I try not to put it in people's faces too much.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. Oh, that sounds, I mean, that sounds like exactly right. Like you use it and it's kind of passive a little bit. And then people inquire and find it interesting. Then, you know, may end up down that path themselves. So, related to that, Andrew wants to know, can you tell if taking notes by hand as opposed to laptops makes a difference in the classes you're teaching? Nope. Yeah. There's no way to quantify that, right? Like you can't really.

'''Myke Madison:''' Well, yeah, not for me. I mean, I've read research studies and that sort of thing that have tried to show correlations between improved test scores and learning and retention with writing things by hand. And so, I'll put some stock in that. And I think it's probably, it seems true. It has the ring of truth. But there's no way I can do. I can figure that out.



== Stationery Storage Habits ==


'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. Yeah. I'm with you. All right. So, changing course here. Sir Jerkface wants to know, does Myke have an equivalent of Brad's closet of doom? Basically, my stationary closet of death where everything goes to be piled up and hopefully not die, hopefully to be used or given away at some point. But do you have any type of crazy stash of stationary?

'''Myke Madison:''' Unlike you, I'm real bad at confining my crazy doom stash into a particular place. So, it's kind of, my whole office is the closet of doom. I've got a cabinet where my ink lives and I've got a couple of places where I cram notebooks and that sort of thing. But yeah, everything just kind of, it's all over the place. The answer is yes. And it is my whole office. Yes, all of it. Yeah. Right.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah. It's hard. Like my stuff on my desk, I keep a separate pile that's on its way to the closet of doom. Right. So, there's, I have like the closet and I have my desk and then I actually have a transition area of doom. So, you know. A transition area of doom. Because it's headed that way.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' So, Beth asked, do y'all have any EDC items, especially for summer events? Do they differ from school year stuff you carry? I'll tackle this one first. And I do because my son plays baseball. So, I'm out at a ball field a lot. And I'll almost strictly carry either a wooden pencil, mechanical pencil, or a ballpoint. I won't carry a rollerball ink or a fountain pen ink pen in those types of situations. And it's almost always with a pocket notebook of some type. So, not specifically a pocket notebook. Whereas opposed to, if I wasn't doing like summer events, like going out and being sweaty and dirty, like, you know, baseball or doing anything else outside, I would carry, you know, most like more times than not, I'm carrying a fountain pen. But those situations just do not call for that. So, do you have anything like that?

'''Myke Madison:''' You know, I actually carry less stuff around in the summer because I'm not going to classes and such. So, no, not really. I just carry less.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. And that's kind of on that same thing. Like, when it's not summertime and I'm doing things, I'll carry a pen case of something a lot of times or just a sleeve of something. But yeah. Yeah, right. It's just way, way less in summer and outdoors. Unicorn Cat asks, and we need to pimp your store here. So, what made you guys decide to do the polymer clay ink stand? So, let me preface that by saying you can go to the Ink Dependent Store at inkdependentstore.bigcartel.com or just go to the shortened URL, inky, I-N-K-Y-D.com. We'll have all this in the show notes. Myke sells stuff. So, number one, tell us about your store. Then, number two, tell us about the pen rests.



== Social Media Branding ==


'''Myke Madison:''' So, the store actually happened because I was convinced to make stickers of various things. Our good friend, HeyMatthew, designed an awesome logo with me. And so, I've been using that on stickers and things. And then it sort of evolved into things and people that show up on my Friday live streams on YouTube. Like, some people are big fans of my dog, Scraggles, or my cat, Mr. Nose, who's always butting into things. And then our friend Brian, like, convinced me to make one of my face. So, I ended up with all these stickers. And I'm like, well, how do I make these available? So, I made this store. And then I had, I was talking to Mark at Rickshaw Bagworks. And he printed a bunch of things with various designs. Some of them, my logo. Some of them, one of them is a great pen case with, like, this picture I took in my garden of some creeping flocks. That came out awesome. It's really cool. Yeah. I've got a few of those left. And then, yeah. So, the pen rests came about because pens without clips have been sort of getting bigger recently, I think. And I used to be a solid clip or die sort of dude. But I've got a bunch of pens without clips. And so, you need to have some way to sort of keep them from rolling around and, you know, keep them in place. And so, we have a few of those things around. But Audrey really likes making things out of clay. And she hasn't done it in a long time. And so, she's like, well, we could try making that stuff out of polymer clay. Because it gives you something to do with your hands while you're, you know, watching Netflix or whatever at night. And you get to be artistic and, like, creative with the different color patterns and all this kind of thing. And so, yeah, we started making pen rests. And polymer clay, once you bake it, is basically PVC. So, it's not going to hurt your pens or anything. It looks cool. It maintains its shape. And so, yeah, it's been a lot of fun knocking those things out and getting different color combination suggestions from people and that sort of stuff. So, that's how those came about is Audrey had the idea, hey, why don't we make a thing? And so, that's what we do sometimes.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah, and they're really cool. I like, you know me, I like the wild colors. So, these are right up my alley. I saw them at the Triangle Pen Show where we got one. I got one and both my kids got one. So, thank you for that. And I'll have you know that your face on a sticker is on my sticker wall in my shipping area. Like, I can see it while I'm shipping. And I think that's probably a mistake on my part, you know, as much as I love the sticker. I got to keep an eye on you. Yeah, I know. It's like, you're giving me the side eye while I'm working most of the time. But I think that's a hilarious sticker. So, that's awesome. So, y'all definitely check out everything Myke's doing. It's really cool and really fun. And like, that's what it's all about. It was like making fun stuff that puts a smile on your face and all this stuff does to me. So, this next question from our good friend Julia Scott, I wanted to ask this question. I thought this was a great question because I'm curious about this. Talk how about you think about your Instagram? Like, how do you take a good shot? Do you consider your whole feed, etc.? Is this a thing for you? Like, do you consider what goes on your Instagram? Because I have thoughts on this.

'''Myke Madison:''' So, I do now. Okay. For years, I just kind of didn't. And so, my Instagram journey has gone this way. I started out with a personal Instagram. And that's just, I like put a bunch of stuff up there. And I put pens and plants and cats and dogs and whatever I was doing. I said, you know, a lot of people who are following this just like know me from the blog or the YouTube channel. So, I started a special one for that one. And I just kind of did whatever. And then I was talking to Audrey about it. She's like, you know, if you, you know, I think people would like it more maybe if you focused on your Instagram a little bit more. And so, I get a lot of great ideas from Audrey. She's really astute at paying attention to social media and, you know, makes comments like, you know, you should probably put up pictures that people are going to like. And so, because I never really paid attention much to it. But, yeah, people like to see things that are sort of themed. So, you know, like I've done a few recently. It's like, hey, here's a whole bunch of blue pens. Check these out. Or look at this, you know, fistful of orange ones or whatever the thing is. And so, that's a fun way to get people talking about various pens and let them see a bunch of them sort of in a context. How I take shots, like I think other people do Instagram way better than I do in terms of photography. I just like, I love shots like out in nature and that sort of thing. But I just don't take those shots much. But, you know, I just try to, I try to make it look kind of interesting. And sometimes that means a whole blank white background around a thing in a light box. And sometimes that means, you know, a fistful of things on my desk or means an array of ink swatches or, you know, whatever I'm kind of doing at the moment or I think people might appreciate.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' I'm torn a little bit. Like I've never, I think considered is the right word. Like I've never completely considered the overall presentation of Instagram for pen addict feed. And like I've always just done pen stuff or I'll mix in personal stuff or random stuff that I think is cool. And with not a lot of specific consideration, there'll be some general consideration. So I don't know, you know, if I need to change that or just keep it going as it is, you know, probably keep it going as it is, but maybe try to focus a little bit more on it. I don't know. I, I, I'm torn a little bit. Do I want to make it a brand, right? And to have that type of feel or keep it like more personal, which is what I've always done. And I think there's a balance between the two to be found. But, you know, maybe I'll consider it a little bit more. I don't know. We'll see.

'''Myke Madison:''' So the thing I did, and here's maybe a suggestion. And this is also a suggestion from Audrey, of course, the font of all my good ideas. And that's maybe focus the main thread of things like your main line Instagram and then put the other fun stuff sort of in the stories. And I never use stories. I was like, I don't understand those until I started paying attention to like what Tiff Arment does in her stories. I'm like, yes, good. So Tiff Arment is sort of my stories inspiration. Nice. So it lets me, I don't know, make my regular Instagram feed sort of pen centric and that sort of thing. And then put all the other just random crap that I'm doing in the stories. Yeah.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' We should listen to Audrey and Tiff more often. They're super smart. Right. So yeah, that's a, that's a great call that I never thought about how you can basically have two flows. If they're, if, if you will, in Instagram, you have like your photo and your, your pen flow, then your, your personal type of flow through the pictures. That's pretty, pretty cool. All right. We're just going to knock out a couple more here. And I'm interested about this one because we've talked about it a little bit. So Evan wants to know, what is it about the diplomat arrow that is so deeply appealing? Do you have any other pens that you have the same pen in so many different colors? And do you have a dream colorway for the arrow?

'''Myke Madison:''' Oh yeah. So I've got, I've got a couple other things like the other thing that Evan and I both like is the Rotring core, which is this just absurd pen from the, I don't know, early two thousands or something like that. And I've got a bunch of those in different colorways. I've got like all stars in a bunch of different colorways, but yeah, I don't know what it is exactly about the arrow. That's so appealing, but it's got a great shape. I think to it, I like the design details. Um, I think the new colorways that diplomats doing now are, have been really great. Uh, and I mean, they all write excellently. I've never had a problem with any of them writing. So I think it's a combination of, it's kind of all the things I like in a pen. Um, if there's one gripe I have is that some people find the, the, the section a bit slippery and I get it. Yeah. So, you know, maybe give me a little texture there or something, but otherwise I love this, these pens. That's why I probably got like six of them.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' It's such a good writer and obviously super good looking. And it just, I don't know, it just feels right. Like everything about the dimension of it is, is right when you're writing with it. And that blue one that you were carrying around at the triangle pen show, I guess that's probably the newest or one of the newest. Um, it is hot. Like I'm very tempted to get that one for myself. Yeah. Do you, if you had to design your own colorway for the arrow, what would you pick?

'''Myke Madison:''' I, I, I am not the guy for that.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' We'll get Audrey on that too.

'''Myke Madison:''' Yeah, that's right. Get, get her to, to figure out a colorway. Cause I, uh, if I get a good colorway, it would be accidental.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Fair enough. Fair enough. All right. So let's, uh, we got a few, few rapid fire here. So Alexander wants to know, is there a possibility for a Friday live stream crossover event with Brad and Myke on Twitch? So you stream a lot on not just Fridays, but other times too, but you're, you always kind of keep a Friday schedule and you do Twitch, YouTube. So tell me about just your streaming in general, and then we got to figure out, can we do something together?

'''Myke Madison:''' Uh, the answer is yeah. I mean, if you want to, we can definitely do a thing like that on Twitch or YouTube, or I guess both technologies out there. Yeah. Um, yeah. So I stream on Fridays. I just do sort of a, like a live hangout for an hour or so on Friday afternoons about four o'clock Eastern time. And, um, I just, it's just sort of a time when I don't usually bring a, like a slate of things I want to get done. It's not a podcast. It's like a, it's more of a, just a hangout. So I've had people, uh, you know, write me emails and say, you know, I never missed that because, uh, it's, it's sort of, I can't get to a pin show and this is the closest I can get to hanging out with pin people. Yeah. And so it's just a time for me to hang out with pin people and, uh, you're a pin person and we're pals. I would hang out with you. Yeah.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' I would totally do that. And it's just fun to see where the conversation goes, right? It's generally like totally random. And then you just end up going down this thread. Then another thread picks up off of there. And it's just a fun conversation. And it's like, we miss hanging out with our pin friends sometimes during the week. And that's a good way to facilitate that. And we'll totally have to figure out a time where we can do that together. I think that would be a blast. Yep. Next question we left in because both Myke and I struggled with it. We, we debated this. I'm not going to lie, Kat, before the show, should we leave this in? Because we didn't have a good answer. And I'm not sure that we still have a good answer, but what is the dumbest pin release in recent memory, Myke? Do you have such a thing?

'''Myke Madison:''' I don't, I don't know. Uh, yeah, I don't have a good answer for that question. I wish I did have one. I can throw some appropriate shade, but I just don't.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' So I'm going to, I've come up with one and it's not, I don't, I won't say it's the dumbest pin release, but it's been one of the most technically poor pin releases that have ever crossed my desk in recent times. And I just came up with this since we've been talking, but there was a pin called the Vinvestis. Do you remember that? It was a fountain pen. And it had these, it was angled on both ends, say like a 90, uh, no, probably like a 45 degree angle on both ends. And it was kind of modular. Like it came in various sections, although the sections didn't really serve a purpose. Oh yeah. No, this is gross. And it was, it was like, okay, like that's an idea and that's fine. But like the execution and quality of it was really, really poor. I'd hate to call it dumb and I don't want to like slag them off like too bad. Cause maybe they've changed it since I first tried it, but I've never been as immediately turned off by a pin as that in a long time. I actually had one to review and I sent it back. I was like, there's just no point in me reviewing this. Like it's, have you ever had, have you ever like gotten a product and you don't have to name names, but have you ever gotten a product that you're like, okay, no, we're not, we're not spending our time on this.

'''Myke Madison:''' Uh, I don't think so. There've been a few things that are offered to me and I'm like, I just, I'm not going to be able to review this very well. Yeah. Uh, just cause maybe I don't know anything about it or whatever. Um, I will say, I just looked at the, looked up the Vinvestis website and there's one called the smash, which I is kind of cool. Okay.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' So I haven't kept up with them recently.

'''Myke Madison:''' So yeah, me either. But this looks, this looks pretty cool. So, you know, it seems, yeah, it could be cool. So I don't think it's dumb.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' See, there's, there's no such thing as, as dumb, as really dumb pens, you know, like there's pens out there for everybody, right? Maybe. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Yeah. I hope so. These, um, last two, we'll get out, get you out of here on this. And these are fun ones for this first one from Kautik thing. What's the thing you most regret eating at a pin show?



== Show Food Experiences ==


'''Myke Madison:''' Uh, let's see. That would be, there would be two things. Uh, the, the one that I mostly, I most regret is, um, I had this at the Long Island pin show, like two or three years ago. Uh, I had the worst calzone, I think in existence. It was, it was just, it was, it was gross. It was wet and it was mealy and there was just nothing, there was no redeeming quality and it really put me off. That whole thing for a while. Uh, and the other one is of course the, uh, the gummy snake at Chicago a few years ago. Uh, that was gross, but not as bad as the calzone. I would rather eat a gummy snake. That's crazy.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Cause it's pretty difficult to screw up a calzone, right? I don't, I mean. Apparently it can be done. They, they nailed it. Wow. I don't have an answer for this. Like I'm shockingly can't really come up with, uh, the thing I regret eating at a pin show. I'll have, I'll have to put some more thought on that. Maybe I'll, I'll tweet that out later if I come up with that. But our final question is related. And I do have an answer for this one. This one's from rewill thing. You most regret drinking at a pin show. Do you have something for that?

'''Myke Madison:''' Uh, I mean, I know I have, I don't think I've had anything truly terrible. There was no. Oh, wait. Yes. Yes. Um, uh, what is it's whatever that stuff was that on I had in Chicago. It's some like Chicago centric. Um, I guess it's booze. I don't know. It tasted like, like pine saw or something. And it was really terrible. And I can't remember what it was called. It just came to me. Yes. Yeah. That was terrible.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' So it's funny. I thought you were going to say the same thing I was going to say because it is pine saw related, but I'll never forget the gin that father Kyle gave me. I don't know about three years ago at the Atlanta pen show. It was so gross. It was just, it was like the worst pine saw. It was like, he was like, I love father Kyle. And I told him this, like, he was like so proud of this, like small batch, like local gin. And I tried it and I thought I was going to die. So it was, it was awful. So I love you father Kyle. He's given me lots of Japanese whiskey since then, uh, that are more up my alley, but that one, that was a little rough. And on that note, Myke, I hope this was not a rough episode for you. I felt like it was pretty fun. Uh, did you have a good time today? Uh, it was great. And I'll come back anytime you invite me. Awesome. Thanks so much. So before we go, remind everyone where they can find you on the internet and we'll have all this in the show notes. So, uh, but go ahead and tell everyone where, where you can be found out all your shenanigans. All right.

'''Myke Madison:''' You can find all my shenanigans and links to other shenanigans at inkdependence.com. Uh, you can also find me on YouTube at youtube.com slash Michael Madison. Uh, I know branding is hard. Uh, and then you can find me on Instagram as at ink dependence and Twitter as at Madison.

'''Brad Dowdy:''' Yeah, I'm with you. Myke yells at me cause all my stuff's everywhere. So you can find pretty much anywhere you need to find me at penaddict.com. All the links are there. You can find me on Twitter at dowdyism, D-O-W-D-Y-I-S-M on Instagram at penaddict. Uh, same on Twitch. So with that, we'll get you out of here and get all our listeners out of here until next time. Say goodbye, Myke. Goodbye, Myke. Bye.

[[Category:Podcast Transcripts]]
[[Category:The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript]]