Editing The Pen Addict 524/transcript

{{Infobox podcast transcript
| name            = The Pen Addict
| number          = 524
| title           = So?!
| date            = August 3rd, 2022
| hosts           = [[Brad Dowdy]]<br>
[[Myke Hurley]]
| guests          = 
| link            = [https://www.relay.fm/penaddict/524 Episode 524]
| audiolink       = [https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.libsyn.com/secure/thepenaddict/The_Pen_Addict_524.mp3 Audio Episode 524]
| length          = 57
}}

'''Brad:''' From RelayFM, this is The Pen Addict, episode 524. Today's show is brought to you by Squarespace and Trade. My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined by Brad Dowdy. Hi Brad. Hi Myke. Are you okay? You okay? It felt like you dropped something right when you were about to say my name. No. I'm just trying to keep it fresh, you know. Okay, I'm very like, like, dialed in to your introductions now. You freaked me out when you started laughing. I was like, did I say the name of the wrong show or something like that, you know? Because sometimes when I start doing those intros like I did today, I'm on autopilot. Exactly. Right? Like, I'm just going. I don't know what I'm saying.

'''Myke:''' Yeah, and then you think about it and you're like, I really can't even remember what I just said because I just do this by nature and it's just vanished. Poof! In the thin air out of your memory. So, when I giggle, you're like, what did I really say?

'''Brad:''' Because I do things all the time. Wrong shows, wrong hosts, wrong numbers, you know? Sure. You just obviously people don't hear those. They're removed.

'''Myke:''' Yeah, yeah. And I'm the same way. I'm the same way. But, I mean, I guess it's just a good note to say how good of a mood I'm always in when I get to talk to you about pens.

'''Brad:''' Couldn't be any better. Yeah.



== DC Pen Show Week ==


'''Myke:''' Like, I'm excited. I'm excited it's DC Pen Show week, Myke. Like, this is, like, at this point, I should be, like, the DC Pen Show hype man. Like, I talk about it so much, but I think it's just because the people I talk to so much, just on social media, Twitter, Instagram, Slack, things like that, everyone's, like, getting hype for the DC Pen Show.

'''Brad:''' You think if you were the hype man, though, that you would actually put the respect on the show's name, like, which you refuse to do? It's actually the Washington DC Fountain Pen Super Show, and I think it's about time you started calling it that, you know? That's what I'm going to say on the matter.

'''Myke:''' Yeah, so the reality of the situation is I have to keep talking about the DC Pen Show because it is such a hot mess every year. They can't get out of their own way. There's always a problem that I feel like I have to prepare people for what they're about to walk into if it's their first pen show or even if it's their multiple-time DC Pen Show. So it's some different mess every year, and this, hey, Myke, this year's no different. Okay. So we've talked about this before, and we talked about it last week, and I'm only bringing it up again because, number one, it's actually time for the show. It starts tomorrow. But number two, I mentioned last week that I'm reminding people who are attending this show who happen to be listening to this podcast, there is going to be a ballroom in a place where it has never been before, and I hope that all of y'all make a point to go see and visit this other ballroom because that's where a lot of – it's formerly the Cool Kids room that was on the side room outside the main room, and they put a lot of makers in there. It was just a joke, but it was like show design and Brooks and Canalea and a lot of people who make their own stuff.

'''Brad:''' Was that where Canalea were in the year that I came?

'''Myke:''' Yes. Okay. So it was that odd little side room, right? Yeah. But it became a thing, and it was on the path in the way to the main ballroom. So most people saw it, even though some people didn't. Well, this time, that room is not there, and they're actually going to be in a basement on a different floor from the main room. And it's like a whole thing is like, well, are people actually going to go visit this room? So we are keeping our eyes and ears peeled to see how the DC Pen Show handles that. So that's why I keep bringing it up to make sure that people are aware, hey, there is more than meets the eye at the DC Pen Show, and you better go into that other room because you're not going to get the whole full show experience unless you do that. So there will be people in there that you will want to see and want to check out. I don't know where everyone's tables are, but I did want to point out our good friends at Plotter, Myke. Last year, I was part of their trial program, getting testing. Yeah. I was a penfluencer for Plotter last year and was testing out one of their products, and I very much appreciate what they're making and what they're doing. And they were at the San Francisco Pen Show last year. That was their launch weekend. Was it San Francisco? This year, they're going to DC and San Francisco, and they're going to have special goods. So this is another thing. If you're going to DC and you're going to be there on Friday, there's going to be vendors there, and you should probably just kind of look at DC vendor lists and maybe kind of check those matching vendors that you like. Maybe check their Instagrams to see what they're doing for the show because a lot of them are going to have special show-only things, and those show-only things might not make it past Friday. Like, Plotter is going to have some new – they're introducing some new kind of show-special paper formats, right? So the standard papers that fit into their systems with some different types of rulings like manuscript ruling and different types of rulings and things like that. They're also going to have Traveler's Company. It's by the same company, the same parent company. They're going to have these brass ballpoints. The Traveler's Brass ballpoints. You're going to be able to get them engraved there. So they're doing lots of special things. So you should figure out, you know, what you're doing, what you're thinking about doing, what your game plan is for the show as you head to the DC Pen Show. So it's not just, you know, it's not just Plotter. That's one that crossed my eye. Like Ian Schoen has, you know, a great display. Hey, we're launching all these new colors at the show. Some of these are show-only. You know, our friends at Canalea, you know, have, you know, pens each morning that aren't normally available. So be thinking about that if your time's limited at the show and you're interested in some of these, you know, unique kind of one-off type of goods that you can only get in the show. Think about what your game plan is when you get there. So I'm looking forward to follow everyone at the DC Pen Show. I hope y'all keep me in the loop. I'll be following the Instagram, checking in on Slack. I'm just anxious to see how it goes because it's something always happens at DC. San Francisco runs infinitely more smooth and I will be there later this month at the end of August, August 26th through 28th. Then I'll be in Orlando September 8th through 10th. So I am looking forward to some Pen Shows of my own, but I am jealous of all my friends at DC. Even though I know it could be a bit of a hot mess. But like I said last week, it might be a hot mess, but by the time it's done and gone and you've left, you will have had a good time.

'''Brad:''' Pretty jelly of you, you know.

'''Myke:''' Yeah. Why? Getting out to Pen Shows for a change?

'''Brad:''' Yeah. I would like to go to a Pen Show. It's been a really, really long time. I mean, and it was, these were staples of my year. At least like two a year for like four years. And I haven't been to one since 2019.

'''Myke:''' So maybe I need to head your way soon. Like maybe I need to head to one of the London shows or we both go to the Dutch show or something like that.

'''Brad:''' That'd be nice.

'''Myke:''' I mean, I know we're talking about Tokyo, but you know, you always come over here to a show. Maybe I should head over there. We've talked about it off and on.

'''Brad:''' I would, I don't think that's a bad idea, you know?

'''Myke:''' Yeah. So like the London Pen Show, I think is, they have two or three a year. I think they're just one day. I wouldn't bother with that, Brad. So, so maybe the Dutch, maybe the Dutch. Yeah. If we're going to do it, you shouldn't, you shouldn't come to the London. The problem, the problem with the Dutch show is it's in June, like early June. Whoops. For you, that's a bad, yeah. That's not happening.

'''Myke:''' Maybe I'll just come and I'll bring, I'll get like a cutout made of you and just carry it around with me.

'''Brad:''' That would kind of suck though. Not for me. If you came to Europe and then I just, I was in California. That's the, that doesn't work. I don't know. It kind of works for me. That's for you. You're a bully. You're a bully.



== Pelican Hubs Event ==


'''Myke:''' You know what else works for me, Myke? Pelican hubs are back. This is another event you could go to.

'''Brad:''' There's probably some, some good access in this to be honest.

'''Myke:''' Yeah. But you know what? It's one of the coolest things that a manufacturer does for the community. Like I am shocked continually that how big this is and how such a good job Pelican does. And what this is, if you're not familiar, because we haven't talked about them in years because they were not being run due to, you know, pandemic reasons for since 2019 was the last time that they did it. But Pelican will do an annual event where they say, hey, sign up if you want to, you know, coordinate like a little club meeting in your area. And Pelican will essentially kind of sponsor the meeting by sending you, you know, paper and inks and, you know, Pelican samples and things like that just for your little get together. And it's a worldwide event. There's groups that get together, you know, from all over and meet up. And it's like a little pen club meet up. And Pelican has done such a great job. And in years past, they were sending like entire bottles of their ink of the year inks to, you know, like if you had 10 people at your meeting, they'd send you 10 inks. If you had 44 people at your meeting, they'd send inks for everybody. I think they did kind of wind that down because it was getting to be really, really big and expensive to do. But Pelican is really in on this kind of community aspect for pens and stationery. It's something I can really, really appreciate. I've never been to one myself. There's usually one in Atlanta. I think reading the requirements, as long as you have seven people, you like you can run a hub. Like I could run one here in Macon if I felt I could get like seven pen friends into Macon and did one. Or some of the bigger ones, you know, rent out a room at a restaurant or meet, you know, at different places for these get together. So they're really cool. They're back. Joshua at the Pelican's Perch has all the details. We'll have a link in the show notes if y'all are interested. The kicker this year, it's twofold. One, it's moved later in the year. It's moved into November. Normally they're in September. And two, you have to sign up by August 21st, a.k.a. Brad's birthday, to be able to participate. So they've pushed out the date of when they will take place, but move forward the date for when you have to sign up. Like from their announcement time to sign up time is less than three weeks. So if that's something you're interested in, you need to go read this information and get to signing up. So it's something I need to look at. I need to look at the November calendar, see if I can sign up, see what's going on in Atlanta. I probably wouldn't try to do one here, but, you know, maybe I could do something in Atlanta. So I keep threatening to do one. And then it's been a few years since I've had the opportunity to try. So maybe we'll try again here soon in 2022.

'''Brad:''' When you said that about your birthday, I involuntarily threw my hands up in the air. Why? So what? It's got nothing to do with anything.

'''Myke:''' That's why it was good to just sneak in there. Yeah, you nailed it because it got me.

'''Brad:''' I was just like, so?

'''Myke:''' I'm very talented that way.

'''Brad:''' You really are. You're a professional.

'''Myke:''' You know what you're a professional at, Myke? Ad reads. Tell us about our good friends at Squarespace.

'''Brad:''' Sure will. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. They are the all-in-one platform for building your brand and growing your business online. You can stand out with a beautiful website, engage with your audience, and sell anything. Products, services, even the content that you create. Squarespace has you covered. It's so incredibly easy to get started. You just go to their website. Go to squarespace.com slash penaddict. Sign up for a free trial. No credit card required. You choose one of their beautiful templates. They have these categories that you can get started with to meet the type of business or website that you want to make. It's a perfect starting place. You can customize it with a few clicks. You can choose the fonts you want, the colors you want, and even drag and drop the layout around to really just make it look exactly how you want it to. Then you can, if you want to make a blog, they have all the tools for that. To share stories, photos, videos, updates, and more. You can categorize them, share them, even share through your posts. If you want to create a store, whether you sell physical or digital products, they have all of the tools and integrations that you need to start selling things online immediately. And then once you've got things going and you're happy with how it's going, you can use insights to grow your business. You can see where your site visitors are coming from, where your sales are generating from, and which channels are most effective for you. Squarespace lets you analyze all of this so that you can use that data to improve your website and your business based on your top keywords, most popular products, most popular content, and more. So go there right now. Squarespace.com slash penaddict. Sign up, no credit card required. When you're ready to launch, use the offer code penaddict and you'll save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That is squarespace.com slash penaddict. Use the code penaddict to get 10% off your first purchase when you sign up and show your support for the show. A thanks to Squarespace for the continued support of this show and all of RelayFM.



== New Products Discussion ==


'''Myke:''' I'm excited to talk about new products today. So I feel like it's been, you know, we talk about new products a lot. And this is kind of a really good place for me to talk about new products because I don't do like product launch stuff on the blog necessarily, right? Like I'm not doing like a release news content. But it's great to talk about on the podcast because it's very timely and it's interesting to me. And what I've noticed with all of the links I put in the show notes today is how little releases or how few releases there have been in the past few months. And I guess that's the summertime. At least here in the U.S. and in the northern hemisphere, the summertime doldrums are real, right? Like that's the quietest time for pretty much everything while people are on holiday. There's not a lot of, you know, not as much sales. I think in retail would probably like line up with, hey, it's always quiet. It's kind of right before August and school gets back and, you know, summer vacations are over and things like that. So we've got all these releases all of a sudden. And I think it's also timely for smaller makers and, you know, people in our community to start building back up for the two big pin shows in the U.S. at D.C. and San Francisco to have a bunch of new products. So let's lead off with this. And we're going to talk about a bunch of new products here because I find them all compelling for a huge amount of different reasons. So the first up, Myke, the Estabrook Camden Northern Lights Limited Edition. What do you think about this product lineup? So it's a three pin lineup from Estabrook that they've collaborated with Heinz Penco. What do you think just from you, your aesthetics, what do you think about this?

'''Brad:''' I would say it's like one and a half out of three. Okay. So like there's three models. I like one of them a lot. I kind of like another one. And then one of them just doesn't do it for me.

'''Myke:''' Okay. So now I have a challenge.

'''Brad:''' I have to rank those for you.

'''Myke:''' Good grief.

'''Brad:''' So there is a there's a green one, a blue one and a purple one.

'''Myke:''' Yes. And they're kind of they're swirled and a little bit of glittery. And then they have matching hardware. We'll have the link in the show notes for all the products we're about to talk about.

'''Brad:''' But I will say like big fan of the I love the the matching nibs. Yes. Right. Because they did this with that pink one that I have that was really limited. And exactly. I like that they've got three of them. I'm happy they have expanded that because that is a fun thing to have.

'''Myke:''' So, yeah. So like the the nibs and the clip matches like the hardware plating all looks good. So, gosh, what is your order? It's your order is wow.

'''Brad:''' It's blue one, purple two, green three. You couldn't be more wrong.

'''Brad:''' Green one, blue two, purple three. Okay.

'''Myke:''' So let me tell you why. I'm surprised at green one. Okay. In retrospect. Okay. I think I see that. That's it. That's you. Okay.

'''Brad:''' Well, I just say for me, just the green is the most novel of the three. Right. I feel like blue and purple swirly pens, like swirly material pens. I feel like I've seen that a bunch. This kind of really light green is very unique. The blue. I mean, blue is blue, right? So it's going to win. The purple looks like cabbage to me.

'''Myke:''' Ah, dang. I didn't see that until you said it. That's right, cabbage, baby. As soon as the word was out of your mouth, that's exactly what it looks like.

'''Brad:''' I don't want a red cabbage pen.

'''Myke:''' Yeah. That's a very strong color, right? Like, and strong color separation. So I get that. I think, gosh.

'''Myke:''' I think they're all good, right? Like, I don't necessarily have, to me, they're more even than, like, you would have, like, a definitive one, two, three ranking. I have, like, everything's a two ranking, right? Like, they're all fine. Like, I do like them all. I do like the matching.

'''Brad:''' Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying one of them's a loser. I'm just like. No, no, no, no. I don't, for me, like, I find there to be a distinct ranking between the three. But they're all good. Because I like the mixture of stuff they've got going on. Like, the material looks good. The putting glitter in there, why not? But it's the matching nib that sells me on all of these, to be honest. Yep.

'''Myke:''' Yep. So, I still, I will go with blue one and then the other two tied for second. Like, I don't think I have a third. I couldn't pick between the green and the purple. I don't think. I still like the purple, even though you called it the cabbage pin. The thing is, I already have, like, a prototype Estabrook Estee in this blue material. It's at least, it's a little simmer. I think mine might be a little bit darker, but it might just be the picture. But without the matching trim and not in the Camden shape, which I don't prefer. I prefer the standard Estee shape, which is just a regular rounded cap finial as opposed to the flat ends of the Camden. So, Camden's a little bit different shape. But I think they might have tweaked the shape of the cap shape of the Camden a little bit. Because traditionally, the Camden only fit Schmidt nibs. The Yovo nibs were too long, but these are definitely Yovo nibs that are in these pictures. So, I'll be interested to talk to Kenro to see if they did tweak the design a little bit on the Camden to fit the Yovo nib. Even though I think the Schmidt nibs are perfectly fine. I think I like Schmidt nibs. So, anyway, just a thought there. But that I prefer the Estee, the basic rounded end shape for that. But, yeah, these look great. I think they're already available. So, they'll probably be at the DC Pen Show for you to check out. The other thing is Kenro does have limited edition pens. I picked up one at the Atlanta Pen Show the last time this past spring. So, definitely check them out.



== Studio Neat Mark II ==


'''Myke:''' Number two, Mark. Two. I almost called you Mark. I thought you were calling me Mark. I saved myself. I did really good there. I saved myself. Number two, Myke, is the Mark II. The blue titanium Mark II, which is the first Mark II limited edition that our friends at Studio Neat have done. What do you think about this one?

'''Brad:''' I love the design. I mean, I have this blue in a Mark I. And so, I think this is a very nice pairing. And I like that they went with the bright silver for the body rather than the kind of darker gray, at least, that I have on my Mark II. I think this is a very nice foray into the limited. And I'm happy that they are pulling the limited idea to the Mark II as well as just the Mark I. By the time people are hearing this, the sale is over. It was a timed sale. Yeah. Which I think they've moved to timed sales with like a short lead time because, you know, I think if you listened to Already Considered, you would have heard us talk about like some of the limits that they've done in the past. But they've had numbered ones. And they would just sell too quickly or they will put them up at a certain time of the day. And then people on the other side of the world would get upset at them. So, I think now they just do like a timed sale. They sell them through that period and fulfill them faster than like every hour of a pre-order or whatever. Right. Because they're just kind of ready.

'''Myke:''' So, if you're a Studio Neat fan, you should subscribe to their newsletter and you'll get notified about the drops. And this one was around, was this 24 hours or 48 hours? It might have been more like a 48-hour type of deal. I think it was something like that. Yeah. Yeah. If you catch this right after it drops, you might have a chance. But it's still running as we record. But like Myke says, it's probably going to be done soon. I love the color. Like, I don't have the Mark I in this color, nor do I need it. And I don't need this either. But I think the color is fantastic. I will say the Mark II is my least favorite of the Mark I, II, III combination. I use the Mark I a lot more. I would know I'm going to love the Mark III. The Mark II is just okay for me, personally, the way I use pens. But I think this one is a much cooler color than like the original launch black color. But you kind of got to launch with black. That's like the way to go. You always got to have stock black. That's always going to be your best seller. But I love this color. And I think it looks really, really good in the Mark II.

'''Brad:''' I think we're in a similar place. Like, I'm using my Mark II today. And I like, I think this is one of the best, if not the best pocket pen I've used. I just don't use these pens.

'''Brad:''' You know? Mm-hmm. They're just not for me. Gotcha. I will say, talking about Studio Neat, so I do a show with them called Thoroughly Considered. They started a new thing that I wanted to just recommend people go and check out. So we record Thoroughly Considered kind of once a month-ish. And we talk about production and manufacture. And the boys had an idea, because obviously they are design-focused people. They wanted to start a show about products. Like, so they would have a guest on every episode. And they would bring their favorite item to the show. And Dan and Tom would talk to the guest about that item. This is something I wasn't able to make work with my schedule. And instead of starting a brand new podcast, it's now going to Thoroughly Considered will now alternate between the episodes that I'm on and then these episodes, which are called The Last Detail. So the first one is with Adam Lisagor. And they talk about the Sonos move. I listened to the episode today. It's fantastic. So if you like products in general, like Thoroughly Considered is an interesting show, because you get a little bit of all of it now. So product design, and then also product manufacture. So go check it out.

'''Myke:''' Nice. I look forward to checking that out, because I like Tom and Dan and I have very similar ideas and big picture ideas on how to do things. Right? So we always get along very well, and I like their thought processes around things.

'''Brad:''' And if you want, like a taste, there is like in this, I think this is very, very, especially Dan, this is very Tom and Dan. Every episode of every item, Dan is planning to pick which one of Dieter Rams' 10 design principles apply to why this is a good product. Gotcha. So it's really cool. It's great. This show's great. So I reckon people listen to it.

'''Myke:''' So I wonder what Dan would think about the Mont Blanc Heritage Rouge et Noir baby collection. Okay, the name is one thing.

'''Brad:''' We're going to... When I saw this in the document, I thought that this was embellishment from you, right? That you're like, the Heritage Rouge et Noir, baby. Like that's how I read it. Mm-hmm. And then went to the product listing and saw the name. Now let me tell you something, Brad Dowdy. Mm-hmm. The white one is one of the best looking pens I've ever seen in my life.

'''Myke:''' I am shocked, surprised, and pleased that you said that because I feel the same way. I want it.

'''Myke:''' This surprises me for Mont Blanc in a very positive way. Right? Like I love Mont Blanc pens for their design and their work, but they're not generally for me. Like the style and the size of them usually does not work for me. I own one Mont Blanc pen. And Myke, it is a little baby pen. It is the little Mont Blanc Bohem. It only takes short international cartridges because that's all it'll fit. You've seen this pen of mine before. It's a very small, like a Kaweco Sport type of size pen. And this one is similar, looks to be similar in size to that, but with a fixed nib. Mine has the retractable nib that just like kind of spins and retracts in. I couldn't get over the name when someone sent me this. Shout out Toasty Treat.

'''Brad:''' There's so many names in this name.

'''Myke:''' Yeah. They sent me this. I thought this was going to be like some baby like focus. Like is this some like pen for kids type of situation? Why is it called this? And I really hate the name. Like I think the name is just dumb. I love the pen though.

'''Brad:''' Oh, they're good looking. They make cufflinks of the red and white Mont Blanc logo.

'''Myke:''' And this is the vintage logo, right? This is the best logo where the snow cap is really large. It's not like small and centered like on Mont Blanc's product pages, you know, their general basic logo. This is the old classic logo. The Rouge Noir uses this part of the heritage collection. That must be part of the logo situation. But this is a smaller what we would what I refer to as a pocket pen, right? So it's small in size. The cap posts on the back to make it a full length writer. It's literally like the Mont Blanc Kaweco Sport type of situation. But with a gold nib, a metal section, I think the white one is an absolute knockout. It's killer, man. And you know what? For as expensive as Mont Blanc pens are, these are very expensive pens. But for Mont Blanc, I think it's $760 MSRP, which means you can probably get it for less. Like, that's not ridiculous for what this pen is. Like, I paid more for my elbow, like as I should. Like, you know, it's small, small batch, custom made, silver hardware, you know, gold nib, ebonite barrel. Like, it's very, very highly specialized. I paid more than that for this than this than this Mont Blanc. And like, I thought the price was actually shockingly reasonable for a Mont Blanc. And I'm going to, I have no interest necessarily in like running out and buying this. I am very anxious to get this in hand.

'''Brad:''' Yeah, I would want to feel how it feels because it's small. Even posted, it's small, like looking at the images. So I would want to know how it felt weight wise. But this is a pen that I feel like I could pick up at a pen show or whatever. And I would walk away with it. It is unbelievable.

'''Myke:''' I like it when brands surprise me like this. Like, this is a pleasant surprise type of situation.

'''Brad:''' I'll tell you, Brad, I'm on Mont Blanc's website. The entire range of products that they have for this Heritage Rouge Noir baby line, it's all killer. Like, the ballpoint is beautiful. I don't know if you've seen the ballpoint.

'''Myke:''' I didn't see that.



== Mont Blanc Heritage Rouge et Noir Baby Collection ==


'''Brad:''' They have a small ballpoint. Oh, it's... But the cap is really small on the top. Like...

'''Myke:''' But it's retractable. It's just a click. Yeah. Yeah, it's not a capped pen. It's the ball... No. Huh. Yeah, I'm going to need to see these in person.

'''Brad:''' And all the cases they have... All of this stuff is beautiful.

'''Myke:''' Oh, then the rollerball... Then there's a rollerball that is capped.

'''Brad:''' Yep. They have a ballpoint that's a click and a rollerball that's a cap.

'''Myke:''' Wow, this is like a full product lineup with cases. Like you said, cuff links, rollerball, ballpoint. Is there a pencil? Just because... Nope. Just ballpoints in the middle. Killing it.

'''Myke:''' I... Really good... Really good job by Mont Blanc here. Like, I'm... I'm impressed. This is a good product line at not... A shockingly not Mont Blanc... Like, crazy, crazy price point. So, yeah. Interesting.

'''Brad:''' Regime, what, baby?

'''Myke:''' The black... The black fountain pen is slightly less expensive than the white one, which is interesting. Like, 25 pounds less. Doesn't surprise me. Interesting. I wonder why.

'''Brad:''' The white one's clearly the best one.

'''Myke:''' I guess the Gold Trim, maybe. Gold Trim. Who knows?

'''Brad:''' A little pen pouch. Mont Blanc's killer.

'''Myke:''' Very interesting. Interesting stuff. So, um... All right. I got more new stuff to talk about, Myke, but you need to get me caffeinated first.

'''Brad:''' Okay. This episode of The Pen Addict is brought to you by Trade. When you become a Trade coffee customer, you will get the freshest and best-tasting coffee you've ever made at home. And the coffee you'll be drinking will be from the country's best independent craft roasters, which helps out those small businesses, too. Trade's coffee team taste tests thousands of coffees to keep 450 different kinds live and ready to ship every day. Everyone has that one coffee that they love, and Trade will help you find it. Trade is so confident that they'll make you right the first time, that if they don't, you just give them your feedback, and one of their coffee experts will send you a brand new bag for free, so you'll be looked after. It takes just answering a couple of questions to get your own personalized variety of coffee delivered fresh to you as often as you'd like. And Trade have delivered over 5 million bags of fresh coffee with more than 750,000 positive reviews. I had one of those great moments this morning, Brad, where I went to the coffee machine, to our espresso machine, and there were no beans in the espresso machine. So I got to open a brand new bag, and I'm like, what wonders do I have today from my trade selection? I poured it into the machine, made the espresso. So it's warm in London right now, so I'm going with more of an iced latte kind of vibe, which I like. It's very easy for me, because it's just the espresso shot and just pour milk on it. You haven't got to do it on the milk foaming or anything. And I took one sip this morning, and I was like, gosh darn it, Trade, you did it again. So good. So good. You can have this joy yourself, Pen Addict listeners, because Trade is offering a new subscribers as a total of $30 off their first order, plus free shipping. So all you have to do is go to drinktrade.com slash penaddict, and you will get more than 40 cups of coffee for free. Get started today by taking the quiz at drinktrade.com slash penaddict and let Trade find you a coffee that you're going to love. One last time, that URL is drinktrade.com slash penaddict for $30 off. Our thanks to Trade for their support of this show and RelayFM. I want to tell you a little story about this next product that we've got in the document today. Please do. Please do. You have made this whole episode as problematic for me in a bunch of ways. So I see Sailor Pro Gear Winter Sky. I'm already nervous, right? Because I had looked at the other stuff in the list so far at this point, and I'm like, feels like Brad is bringing today a selection of products that he likes the look of. So just seeing Sailor Pro Gear, I was like, oh, that's worrying for me, you know? I opened it, and I immediately saw the color, and I was like, oh, if they make a king of pen in this, I'm going to be upset. And there it is. King of pen right there. And this is bad. I think this might be bad news for me.

'''Myke:''' So this is the third in a series of the Pillow Book series, which is a story that I'm completely unfamiliar with, so I'm not even going to go there. But this is the third release of this series, and they've done some previous ones. I think each of the last two years, they've done the full Pro Gear lineup in the Pillow Book series. So they have the Pro Gear Slim, the Pro Gear, and then the Pro Gear King of pen. These are spectacular looking. Like, this is, I'm sure Sailor's done this before, but this is a very subtle gradient from like top to bottom look on this pen, mostly in the cap, right? Like, I think the barrel is a solid color, but whether the cap is posted or the cap is screwed onto the front of the pen, the gradient works, right?

'''Brad:''' Like, it's like a lilac, but the cap has a bit of pink in it.

'''Myke:''' Yeah. And then it's lighter to darker. And it's still, the darkest point is very light still. It's just a beautiful, beautiful color. And like, I just wonder, like, we haven't hit this point, and I keep, I've been wondering this for years, but like, it's every month. There's like some huge Sailor release just in North America alone. And it's like, OMG. It's like, like, all I'm listing today is like new products. And it always seems to be some new big Sailor product. And I guess they're not feeling the negative effects and good for them if they're not. But boy, I can't help but, but wonder about just like the, like Sailor burnout. Like it's, I guess it's not real because they're, they're always releasing new things and, you know, not everyone likes every pen. So, you know, maybe once a year, someone finds a new Sailor pin that they like out of the ones, out of the monthly releases, it seems like. But like, I can't argue with the style and the look of the pen. I think it's fantastic. I can just argue with, like, we just finished talking about the line release, right? Like three, four weeks ago. And before that was another release. And before that was another release. And like, that's cool. But like, I guess all these companies do, right? Like Sailor knows, like I always say, they know better than I do, right? Like I'm looking at this going, wow, that's a lot of pens for, you know, a lot of money released all the time, but they know better than I do.

'''Brad:''' Well, I mean, okay. So this is one of those things. I think a lot of companies are falling into this problem now. I'm not saying this is happening to Sailor, but it is a thing. People have more money in some instances. If you, if you had a stable job during the pandemic, you probably have more money, like disposable income because you weren't spending that money on things like out in the real world, right? So people were buying more luxury items for themselves. I think that was a pretty normal trend. And I think a lot of businesses made some decisions based on what those trends were, thinking it might be for a forever thing. And now there are economic challenges hitting people in new ways right now. So we'll see. You know, that's what I'm saying, right? Like was obviously this stuff, they didn't dream up this idea a week and a half ago. This would have been in planning for a long time. And so who knows? Like, yeah, maybe they're churning a lot of stuff out right now because they think they could sell it. Maybe they can't, but I reckon they probably will. One of the things I like about this pen is the furniture is white gold.

'''Brad:''' That's novel.

'''Myke:''' I didn't notice that specifically. Yeah. Yeah. And not to be like completely hypocritical. Like I'm sure Montblanc is probably the same way, right? I just don't follow them as closely as Sailor, right? So Montblanc is probably is releasing limited editions just constantly between inks and pens and notebooks and all kinds of stuff. I just don't happen to see them, you know, as close as Sailor. So I am, that is a bias.

'''Brad:''' Because this is the thing of like a company at this scale, you're not supposed to track everything they're doing, right? Like they are releasing lots of products to hit lots of different types of people and with different tastes. And, you know, they're put online or they're put in stores and people see it like, oh, like that color. And they buy that one. You know what I mean? But they are doing a lot.

'''Myke:''' Just to preempt the, but Brad, all of this, I was like, yeah, like I understand. Like I have a blind spot there, right? Because I'm a big Sailor fan, right? So I'm looking at this stuff all the time. And it's a lot. It's a lot to look at. So would it shock you, Myke, to tell you that of all the things we've talked about so far in the new product release world, that the next one is the one that I'm the most excited about? Would it shock you that the Kaweco original fountain pen is the one I'm most interested in out of this entire product list, as much as I just fawned over the Mont Blanc, as much as I love this Sailor Pro gear? And I am all about what Kaweco is doing here.

'''Brad:''' Well, what I'll say is interesting to me is some of the links in our document. I feel like there's a story.

'''Myke:''' Yeah. So this is a two part. This is a two part conversation here. So the Kaweco original fountain pen sometime after our podcast last week, it might have even been that afternoon, Wednesday or Thursday. All of the fountain pen retailers put up pre-orders for the Kaweco original fountain pen. And I started getting links because everyone knows I love Kaweco and knows I love like the AL Sport and the design of that nature. So what this is and the links I started getting was essentially a full-sized Kaweco AL Sport, right? It's an aluminum barrel, an extended full-length barrel. So just take the AL Sport, extend it out to like what you would consider a full-length barrel to where you could use the pen unposted. And it had a number six nib, but also had an option to use a number five nib, which we'll get to that in just a minute. But essentially it was a traditionally sized AL Sport. And I think it's great looking, right? It's just that classic Kaweco aluminum faceted barrel look. You know, it's about $115, $125, bigger number six nib and just kind of cool. Like this is like talking about checking boxes. This one checks all my boxes. So I started researching it and I was very confused. Like the first product listing I saw did list it as, hey, you can get it with a 06. You either ordered the 060 model or the 250 model, right? And the 060 I think was the number five nib. And I don't know, I could have this wrong because I can't find them now, which we'll get to in a minute. And then the, and that was like $115 with the number five nib. And the other model was like $125 with the number six nib. I was like, why would they make this bigger pin and have that option for the smaller nib? I was like, okay, maybe just people have a bunch of those Kaweco nibs. The Kaweco premium nib is a number five nib. Maybe they think people want to swap those in, but this pin is built and designed around the number six nib. So I went to go at it to the show notes today and we were talking about it on stream yesterday and the links were gone. Like all the sites, like everyone put up this, this pin at the same day, like any retailer you want, including our sponsor pin chalet and put it up for pre-order and said, Hey, you know, go ahead, start ordering this pin. Here it comes. And by the time I went to add everything into the show notes, poof, no one had them listed like literally 404 pages on where these pages, where these links used to go to. So I could only find one live link, uh, at Goulet pins as it listed, but it's a very like stripped down page. I did find for people that are interested in seeing this pin, the Google image cash has a bunch of images of the pin. So I have a link in there. And then I have some of the cash web pages, like from gold spot and pin chalet where they originally listed the pin, you know, everything on the internet is forever. Right. So you can just go grab the Google cash where, um, Google scraped the information and you can find the listings. Um, they're just not live anymore. And I did a little asking around. I was like, Hey, you know, I asked some of my retailer friends, what's the deal here? And they said, basically no deal at all. Cause wait, Kaveco just wasn't ready for us to post it yet. It's not ready for presale, but it'll be coming soon. So like nothing nefarious about the listings, the listings being pulled. That's what I want you to think, Brad. Wake up. So now there's, now there's more hype. It's like, Oh, why did it go? When is it coming back? So maybe it was just, you know, maybe, maybe I'm thinking Myke, maybe they're going to make a kit with sunglasses, do like a pen and sunglasses kit.

'''Brad:''' Maybe. That would be dope. Maybe this is how they get you. Right. They're like, they want you to think something's going on. Yeah. So you'll pay more attention to a pen that I honestly think looks really boring. Yeah, exactly.

'''Myke:''' Like this is like the least special pen that I've put on this entire list that we've talked about today. And it's the only one that I want on my desk now. Like literally, like I love that Mont Blanc. Like, but you know, it's also a lot of money and will I use it? And is it cool? I want this Kaweco original now. Like I want it now. Not because I think it's going to be amazing, but I think because of how I feel about their other products, I want to see how this works and how the number six nib is. And, you know, is it worth $125? And, you know, that's a whole, that's a whole different conversation. Like this is more up my alley than any of the other pens that we've discussed already today. And like, I will be buying this one like immediately, at least for review, you know, whether I keep it or not. That's, that's a whole different story. But I want to review this one like stat or at least start testing it out. But it's, it's the most compelling of all the products. And now all of a sudden you can't buy it. It is not ready for sale. But like I said, the people I talked to was like, yeah, not even remotely an issue. They were just, it was too soon. They had a wrong date and it will be coming later. So, so stay tuned if you're a Kaweco fan like me and want to get your hands on the original. So this just gives them a plat, another platform, right? To, to extract money from your bank account when they do, you know, the custom colors, the aluminum, the aluminum colors that they do so well, right? Like the cyan or teal, whichever one they're, they're calling out recently. Like I would love to have that in like a bigger pin model like this. So it's just another platform for cool stuff down the line, which I appreciate that from Kaweco.

'''Brad:''' Do you want to do a nice TPA to finish off today?

'''Myke:''' Yeah. Yeah. I got a, got a big one. If you want to read this, I think we probably have both have some commentary on this question. And it's, it's a question that comes up a lot here on the show and we've covered before, but I think it's worth discussing again.

'''Brad:''' This comes from Jeff.

'''Brad:''' Have you seen the Moonman A1? I've got one and I have a few questions and some opinions. Was the Vanishing Point ever made in China? I wonder if they took a disused Vanishing Point assembly line and started producing their own branded pen. It's quite difficult to tell the two pens apart, even down to the inner parts. Having had a Vanishing Point for many years and now this, I must say I actually prefer the Copycat. It has all the things I love about the Vanishing Point, the quick access and satisfying click. On top of that, they offer a clipless version of a roll stop, which Myke would enjoy, and a steel nib instead of gold, which I feel fits the utilitarian theme a bit better. And then there's the price. If you buy this pen in China as I did, it's less than $20 shipping included. So here's my difficulty. I wanted to hate this pen. I wanted to buy it and write it off as, oh, they only copied the design, but the pen is terrible to use. Chinese makers have a long tradition of copying foreign brands. If one understands the historical and cultural context, one might excuse it a bit more than the observer from the outside. But this A1 copy, even I think they've gone too far and it's too blatant. But the truth is, I love it. For one eighth of the price, I've got the Vanishing Point that I've always wanted, a clipless of a steel nib. So this is an RSTPA and I'm supposed to have a question. So here it is. How bad should I feel about this? Given that this is a better pen for me, where does the condemnation for copycatting stop and appreciation for innovation begin? What are your thoughts on this?

'''Myke:''' It's a long list of thoughts. So let's start with the direct question. How bad should I feel about this? You should not feel bad 1%. If you like the product and it works for you and it meets your needs, I think I'm fine with that. I don't knock anyone for that. I don't yuck other people's yum. Even as we continue down this discussion, I'm going to say some things that might counteract that. But I don't believe you should feel bad about that. So the broader question is the condemnation. Where does the condemnation for copycatting stop and appreciation for innovating begin? That's a deeper question. Right? So here's my stance. If your sole purpose for existing is to directly copy other products on the market, then I have no space for you in the discussion. Right? If that's like the sole reason for your existence is to look around, see what's popular, see how you can make it cheaply and pass it off as something similar, go for it. But I don't really have space for that in my brain. Right? Like I don't want to see that. I don't want to hear it. But if you are making like close products, but also have some innovation to them and similar, I tend to be a little bit more passive about it. It's like, okay, maybe there's a little bit of something here. Now this A1 is like pretty blatant. Right? Moonman has a reputation for that. Moonman also makes a few of their own designs. But they have repeatedly just kind of been, there's inspiration, right? In design. And then there's just blatant over inspiration. It's hard to say copy because it's not necessarily one-to-one. Right? I'm not going to say that. But like it's pretty clear like in some of the Kaweco stuff that they've done is very, you know, that's got Kaweco, you know, sending out lawsuit, you know, legal documentation to get them to stop making certain products. This one is pretty strongly, pretty strong, you know, knockoff.

'''Myke:''' But like I wouldn't feel bad if I'm a person using this pen, that that's the pen that I can afford. That's the pen that gives me joy. Like I'm not going to condemn you for that. Right? Like if you use this product and you like it, but I'm also at the same time not going to be out here promoting a company whose sole reason to exist. And I'm not saying this is Moonman. I'm saying in general, like companies that whose sole reason exists is to make a Lamy Safari knockoff. Like I just don't care. Like, you know, that doesn't need to be like praised or, you know, shown as beneficial to the community. Or, you know, hey, look at this $3 Lamy Safari. Like, it's like, why do they exist? Like, are they bringing something to the table more than, hey, we're good at copying other people's products. And that's kind of my line. Right? You know, it's a personal thing. Right? If they're so, you know, uncreative as to all they do is copy other products, I don't have time for them. But if you can, if you're a brand that makes your own products, and even though maybe you have some other products in your lineup that are more questionable of origin, I'll tend to say, okay, yeah, maybe I'll look at it. But like, I'm just not excited to rush out and talk about these things just because I don't care that much. I don't, I don't think it's inspiring or interesting. And those are not the businesses I want to support. I have many, many more businesses I can choose where I can choose to spend my money. At the same time, I will never condemn anyone else for using this. Right? I just won't. Right? That's not my place. Like, I can, we can try to like discuss and educate. But I don't think like, you know, as long as these companies aren't doing anything illegal. And I think some people would probably say, maybe that's questionable. Like, what are you going to do? Like, really, Myke? Like, what are you going to do about this pen? Like, you and I, what are we going to do? Like, literally nothing. So, if you like it, and it works for you, and you got a pen that you enjoy for one eighth of the price. Like, I'm genuinely, I hope you enjoy your pen. Like, I'm happy for you that you found a product that you like. Like, I'm good with that. But then, it's, for me, the story doesn't end there.



== Moonman A1 Ripoff Discussion ==


'''Brad:''' So, I, I, for me, I don't know. I mean, my general thing is, I think if somebody's created something, it's theirs. And people should not be able to take from it.

'''Brad:''' Because, moon men get, if this is accurate, they get to benefit from the work that pilot have done. With no real reason. Right? Like, there's no reason why moon men should be able to have this advantage. And they can charge things cheaper if they haven't had to do any product development. Right? Right. So, of course, they can charge it cheaper for many reasons. But one of them is, if they didn't actually do the design work on this product, it removes some of the margin. My bigger kind of feeling about copycat stuff is with keyboards. Mm-hmm. So, there is a lot, so much art theft in keyboard production. Because a lot of, like, high-quality keycaps with beautiful designs, they can take a long time to produce. Especially with the way that things have been over the last couple of years. You know, I have products that I will be waiting on and have waited on over a year for because whatever. But then copycat companies come in and they produce a worse quality product with the same colors and can deliver it to you faster. So, like, there are products that I put an order in on months ago that I could already have a fake version of if I want. Even though I probably won't get my real version for, like, six, seven more months. And I just think that that's, I think that's terrible, personally. I don't think people should be allowed to do that. Because that's somebody's work. Like, their art that they made. And then there are these, like, copycat products that come out there. I don't agree with it. And I would never, I would personally never buy any of these clones. That's what they're referred to in the keyboard community. They're, like, clone keycaps. Mm-hmm. I would never do it. I know people that do. One of the reasons people buy them frequently is, like, it's sometimes some of the only stuff that's in stock. But for me, like, I feel like if you're aware of the fact that this is a clone and you buy it, like, I haven't got any time for that. I think that that's pretty bad, to be honest.

'''Myke:''' Right, right. So, yeah, to me, like, the deciding factor in how I think about these things, and this is personal. So, I hope Jeff takes it this way. I care what the business's intent is that I'm buying from. Right? That's the number one thing. I don't care where the product's made. I don't care what it looks like. I don't care what the price point is. I care that the people making the product are invested in the customer experience of the product that they're making. Not just, like, churning out widgets, you know, mindlessly, seeing what we can knock off today. Right? That's more how I look at it than anything else. Right? So, that's kind of my take. And then, second to that, I also do not, you know, knock anyone for using any product that they find enjoyment from.

'''Brad:''' Hmm.

'''Brad:''' Yep. It's complicated.

'''Myke:''' It is. It's a very complicated question. That's why I don't mind bringing this topic up, you know, every so often because, like, it's not going away. Right? So, it's just a matter of how you think about it.

'''Brad:''' I will maybe be a touch harsher than you. Like, from my perspective, if you are, if you know that it's a ripoff of a product from a smaller company, I think that's really bad if you buy it. It is hurting the, I mean, this is a whole, like, continuation.

'''Myke:''' Right? It is damaging. Right?

'''Myke:''' At the same time, is the question also, is it? Like, would the other people know that this, you know, original product existed?

'''Brad:''' I think it's disrespectful. It absolutely is. To somebody's work. It is. You are encouraging the continuation of this kind of theft.

'''Myke:''' Right. So, that's where it goes back to my original statement of, like, what is the intent of this business?

'''Brad:''' Yeah.

'''Myke:''' Like, that's where I wrap, that's where I'm, I'm personally able to wrap this all up. What is this business? What is the purpose of existence of this business? And I'm able to delineate that. A lot of people don't have that forethought or knowledge base to make those decisions. They see product and go, oh, click, fountain pen, buy. Right? Right? So, yeah. Like, it's not good. I'm not saying it's good. I'm just saying. Like, you know, it is damaging to small businesses. Also, some of the customers don't know that there was a, there is a real product that this product came from at the same time. So, it's painful. It's painful for those creators, for sure. Like, even for the big companies like Pilot, like, it's painful. Like, I'm sure they, you know, have legal means to go about doing things. So, yeah. This is a very complicated conversation. And you can talk yourself in circles talking about it. But that's kind of how I base trying to, like, have, like, a single base of how I think about it. It's like, what is the intent of the business? You know, are they looking to come into the fountain pen community and, you know, raise the level of discourse and usage for fountain pens? And, you know, make the world a better place, Myke, not just line their pockets off of other people's work, right? So, there you go. It's a whole thing. So, yeah. Don't copy other people's work. Let's put it that way.

'''Brad:''' If you have a question or a topic you'd like to hear us discussed on the show, you can send it in with a hashtag, ask DPA, question mark, ask DPA, in the RelayFM members Discord. Or you can email longer questions, like Jeff did, to hello at penaddict.com. Then go to penaddict.com and see the wonderful articles written by Brad and friends about all the stationary products you love so dearly. You can find Brad in a couple of other places online. He's Dowdyism on Twitter, penaddict on Instagram, penaddict on Twitch, and also spockdesign.com. That's the one I was looking for.

'''Myke:''' Hey, Myke. Yeah? I might also be on WNYC next Monday. We might not have a chance to talk about that. I am doing it, Myke. So, I'm pretty certain. If anyone's listened to the end of this show, then you'll probably want to hear this. If you've ducked out by now, you probably wouldn't try to listen to it anyway. But this is probably Fallout from The Office, ladies. Yes, this is where this came from. 100% this is where this came from. The same day it dropped, Myke and I got contacted by WNYC, which is an NPR station out of New York. I will be allegedly appearing Monday afternoon at 1 p.m. I'll put this out on my socials so you can come listen. I'll be doing a live Q&A about pens Monday afternoon.

'''Brad:''' They wrote to both of us. And I just said, I really appreciate this. I can't do it because I record Upgrade then. But I said, but really, you don't want me. You want Brad. Brad's the person you want. So I'm really happy that you're doing it.

'''Myke:''' So stay tuned. If it works, we'll have follow-up on Wednesday. But since we won't be recording before the appearance, I wanted to shout that out. As a stay tuned, and I will put something out on Twitter at least to let you all know.

'''Brad:''' It's going to be out on the airwaves.

'''Brad:''' Oh, Brad Dowdy. Thanks to Trey Coffee and Squarespace for the support of this week's episode. We'll be back next time. Until then, say goodbye, Brad. Goodbye, Brad. Bye.

[[Category:Podcast Transcripts]]
[[Category:The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript]]