The Pen Addict 243/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	243
Title:	I Don't Really Know How I Found You
Release Date:	February 8th, 2017
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	No guests this episode
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 243
Audio File:	Audio Episode 243
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 243
Length:	6565 min <br />1.083 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

Fifth Anniversary

Myke Hurley: From RelayFM, this is The Pen Addict, episode 243, and it's a very special day, and we'll say why in a moment. Today's episode is brought to you by Macworld and Squarespace, and Harry's my name is Myke Hurley, and I am joined by a man that I have been joined by now for five years, Mr. Brad Dowdy.

Jared: I'm astonished. I can't believe it. I just found out about this about an hour ago, right? Yep. You knew before me, like, somehow you figured this out. Someone tweeted. Yep. And you're like, I think you're right.

Myke Hurley: Yep. Jared tweeted to me today and said, what are you doing for your fifth anniversary? And I was like, oh, what now?

Jared: Yep. Hey, is that like the paper anniversary, or is that like the first one? We'll have to see. Someone look us up.

Myke Hurley: What is the fifth anniversary? First anniversary. Oh, it's wood. So give me a pencil.

Jared: Well, I am using a pencil today.

Myke Hurley: There you go. So I'll take that from you. All right. So we recorded episode one of The Pen Addict on February 9th, 2012. So tomorrow, this show is five years old. Five years?

Jared: Remember that time I thought this was a dumb idea?

Myke Hurley: Yep. And that time that you left me for like six months?

Jared: Yeah, it wasn't six. It was like three or four. I am astonished. I am grateful. I am thankful.

Jared: The people who listen to this show are what makes this possible. Yep. I think that's obvious, but it's not said enough. Like without our listeners, we're not here for five years and 243 episodes. It's pretty astonishing when you think about how we started. Just on a whim. You know, I was a guest with you and Patrick Rohn on Enough, which we've talked about before. And we wrapped up and you said like when we finished like in the post show, you said, have you ever thought about doing a podcast about pens? And I summarily blew you off, right? I mean, like, and then you got back with me. I don't know. It was within weeks or month or pretty short time frame. And you're like, no, really.

Myke Hurley: You were the guy, man. Like I knew it. Like we clicked. We'd never spoken before. And you just did a great job. And I was like, I want to do a show with this guy.

Jared: And that was in the 70 decibels days.

Myke Hurley: Yep.

Jared: When you were running your own thing or did we start pre 70 decibels? I guess it was always on 70 decibels at the time of launch.

Myke Hurley: I don't remember. I don't remember if because there were a few shows that were before I was just doing it and created a tournament and a network. I don't remember if the pen addict was pre or post 70 decibels.

Jared: But like five years later, I mean, it does seem like we just started the show to me still. Like I still like every week I feel like this is a new show. But that's good because that means I really enjoy doing it. Like it's fresh to me still to this day. I love doing it. You know, I love talking about this stuff. I love the community that's around this show and pen addict and relay FM and all of these things, how they all work together. We've hit this very symbiotic point, Myke, and everything's just kind of working.

Listener Appreciation

Myke Hurley: Yep. I couldn't, you know, there's going to be a lot of appreciation for listeners over the next 15 minutes or so. But like step one, massive thank you to all of you out there that listen. And the fact that for a reason that I can't really seem to wrap my head around, there are more of you than there's ever been. And for us to be nearly 250 episodes into this thing, for the people that continue to join us and people that continue to go through the back catalog, just thank you. Like you're all incredible. You make our lives better. And we love you for that. So thank you so much for tuning in for five years.

Jared: Yeah, so the coolest thing is it definitely feels like a family. Like we're well into five-digit listenership, if you'll allow me to at least say that. I will. Per episode, like well into it. But it still just feels like we're having a conversation. You know, it's just a conversation between us and like our buddies on the other end of the wire. Yeah. Like that's how it works for us. And that's what it feels like while we're recording this show. So that that many people like actively download the Pen Addict podcast, a podcast about pens. It's kind of amazing. And I love it. And I'm excited. Like I've said in some of our recent shows, like I still feel like we're scratching the surface. There's so much more. We're not going anywhere. This is like crazy.

Myke Hurley: So to continue on this train, last week we set a goal for you to help us achieve a $20,000 stretch goal on our current Kickstarter campaign. So we would be able to not only do a show in Atlanta and a meetup in DC, but also to record a show in Chicago with the Field Notes crew. I said at the end of the episode, come on, let's see if we can do this by next week. Like Brad was like, that's madness. And we did it again in 24 hours. So we now...

Jared: It seemed like it was by that night, right? It was, I think. It was that day. By like late, like 10 o'clock that night or something. We were watching it and it clicked over.

Myke Hurley: So as we are right now, we have 17 days left to go on the Pen Addict Live 2017 US Tour Kickstarter is what I'm referring it to now. We have 559 backers, which is nearly 100 more than our previous two years. So again, like thank you to all of the new backers as well as our existing backers. Yeah. And we're at $23,500. We don't have any more plans. I do keep thinking to myself, it's like, where else could we go? And I'm like, no, not this year. No. Not this year. But I'm getting swept up in it now. I keep referring to the fact that I'm going on tour this year, which is very funny to me.

Jared: Yeah. And the backers are swept up in it too. They're like, more, more, do more, do more. And I'm like, yeah, but maybe we will. I mean, it's not going to be more travel. You know, maybe we can do something else. But we're like, the travel thing is done for this year. We want to save up for next year. Like there's always something else, which is a thing we talk about all the time. And it's like, okay, this is awesome. And we want it to keep going and growing. It was funny when we were like $50 or $100 away, Field Notes started tweeting it out. Like, come on, make it happen. I was dying. It was pretty funny.

Myke Hurley: They've been amazing through this, like to help us get to this point. So I think it's incredible. Like we have other plans of things we want to do. We just can't do them in 2017 because the logistics would be too much. But we have, and again, you are all filling us with the confidence that we need to go bigger in 2018. Which I know that sounds bonkers, but yeah, we have plans to go bigger in 2018. There's already a plan. There's already a plan. It's underway. And so, yeah, don't forget, save up your pennies for this time next year as well. I'm really excited to see where this will go, where this show will go. And, you know, in the true spirit, the Panavik Kickstarter, every time we will find a way to put any extra money back into the people that helped us get here. So absolutely. We don't do this as a profit-making endeavor. You know, like last year, we surprised everybody with temporary tattoos. And if you're at the shows, then we do things to try and put on like a party. So we'll continue to do all of that. And we'll do, you know, if the money's there, we'll do giveaways for backers and stuff like that from stuff that we pick up at the show ourselves. So just, you know, this is something that's important to me is we don't do this so me and Brad can go sit on a beach somewhere. Right. We do this as a community event. And everybody that is involved in this, we want to get something great out of it. And we reinvest the money that we make into doing that and making it bigger and better.

Jared: Yeah. We spend all the money that we collected in the Kickstarter for all the events. You know, like last year, we were able to do the pizza party after the podcast. And if you know how hotels work even remotely, that kind of stuff isn't cheap. So we included that in, you know, trying to, you know, like into the budget. Like I've shared the budget, you know, like in the Slack room and, you know, people were happy to see the numbers and, you know, kind of get an idea of, you know, what we're looking at. And, you know, I said this was all before the Chicago stuff and things like that. So though we, if there isn't like any extra, we try to put it back into stuff for you guys, which is just fun. It's fun for us. I mean, this is a fun thing for us to do. Um, and, uh, I, I think, uh, everyone enjoys it.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. And we, we, we'll continue to try and make it as best we can. And, uh, let's say everybody that has backed. And if you're still going to back, thank you so much for that.

Jared: Yep. Yep. Yep. We should, Stacy in the chat room gave me an idea. Maybe we should, we should just rent out the waffle house from like 2 AM to 3 AM. I'll be on board with that.

Jared: That would be hilarious. All right. So one more, one more bit of business. Um, I mentioned last week, uh, how we, we always had been talking about doing the pen attic wiki. And I mentioned the idea about doing a pen database. I got so many emails and tweets and Slack messages from people wanting to be involved in that stuff. And that just made me feel number one. It made me feel wonderful that people want to like be involved in this. And two, it made me feel guilty because I have to get both of these things started. And I just don't have that time yet. But I, I think these are like valid things and something I would like to do at some point. Um, it's not going to happen today or this week or this month, but it's something on my radar. Um, I replied back to everyone who messaged me and saying, you know, well, I, once something gets going, I will let you know, because so many people like wanted to be involved and volunteer their time and help do certain things. And it was really, really killer feedback. Um, and, uh, I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who sent that in. And, you know, if we do something, you will be the first to know.

Myke Hurley: We will one day. We promise before we hit our next five year anniversary, there will be a wiki for the pen addict podcast. All right. That's make that promise.

Jared: And I've got five years to set it up. Five year plan. I don't have a five year plan for my life.

Myke Hurley: No, I don't have one for anything.

Jared: But the wiki is on a five year plan.

Myke Hurley: It's the only thing I have on my five year plan.

Jared: Okay, cool.

Myke Hurley: Today's show is brought to you by a new sponsor, Mack Weldon. Mack Weldon makes the most comfortable underwear, socks, shirts, undershirts, hoodies, and sweatpants around. If you're not a Mack Weldon customer, I feel pretty confident in saying that Mack Weldon makes better stuff than whatever you're wearing right now. They believe in smart design, premium fabrics, and simple shopping. The shopping is so simple. You can just go onto their website. You pick what you want. You get discounts for the more that you buy, which I really like. And everything is nicely designed. It's all modeled out well. They have good sizing guides. And you should get everything sent out to you. They have good return policies and stuff like that. Like, for example, talking about their return policies, if you don't like your Mack Weldon clothes or your underwear or socks, they will refund you. But they don't want you to send it back. They're just like, you keep it. We don't want anything to do with that business. And they just refund you. This is all part of their simple shopping. And also, I think, because they don't want you to send underwear to them back. I think they're cool sending it out, but they don't want it on the return. Makes sense. Which makes a lot of sense. I mean, who really wants that? I am a big fan of my Mack Weldon clothing. So yesterday, I had a friend coming over in the evening. And I realized that I was wearing pajamas. I hadn't gotten dressed, which is a normal thing for me. I don't know if you go through this, Brad. But being a home worker, I tend to just work my time in pajamas. Yeah. And I realized, oh, you know, I've got someone coming over. I should dress a bit smarter. So I grabbed my Mack Weldon sweatpants and put those on because I could remain comfortable, but also look good. Mack Weldon's underwear, socks, and shirts perform as well as they look. They're great for working out, going to work, going out on dates for when your friends come over and you want to look like you haven't just been in your pajamas all day. That's what Mack Weldon's all about. Listeners of this show can get 20% off at MackWeldon.com. That's M-A-C-K-W-E-L-D-O-N.com. With the code PENADDICT, you will get that 20% off. Thank you so much to Mack Weldon for their support of this show and RelayFM. Go and check them out, buy some stuff, and then they will sponsor us again, which will be great.

Jared: Yeah, since we're all good friends here, I can share that I am a big fan of the Mack Weldon boxers. And they, you know, I'm a large individual, Myke, and it's not easy to find clothing from all these cool new sponsors that we have, but I have to say Mack Weldon's boxers do the trick for me. Same with their no-show socks. I'm on a no-show sock kick, so I have those, and they work wonderfully.

Myke Hurley: Thanks, large individual.

Jared: Yes, we're all good friends here. We can talk. Speaking of good friends,

Jared: Neil Gaiman, good friend of the show. Friend of the show.

Jared: He has kicked Moleskine to the curb, Michael.

Myke Hurley: Yes.

Jared: I just thought this was funny. I started getting looped into a bunch of responses to his tweets, but it started off, well, there's basically two tweets that were involved in this. So, the first one was, I stopped using Moleskine when they went to cheaper, thinner ink bleeds through paper, now mostly using Leuchterm 1917. So, he just, it was a throw, it essentially is a tweet throwdown right there. He's like, no more this, I'm all of that. And Leuchterm was pretty stoked about this. I bet they were. Yeah. Um, and then he later said, I asked Moleskine reps at TED a few years ago, they said that not many people use fountain pens these days, so almost no one cares. So, taking that second tweet, this is what David Sachs talks about in the Revenge of Analog, chapter two, which is the paper chapter, and it's generally about Moleskine. It was disheartening to read. It's, I think even David, the way he wrote that chapter by the end, he was even kind of saying, he was surprised how little Moleskine cares about the product and how much they care about the brand. Like, he felt like, he was asking, I think, about innovations, I don't have it right in front of me, like towards the end of the, you know, after laying out the entire story of talking with the people involved, talking about the marketing, talking about the business, he wanted to talk about the products, and they were kind of like, yeah, don't really care. I mean, this is me paraphrasing and putting it in my own words, but it was generally, not too concerned about the product, as long as our brand is super popular.

Jared: It was very, very awkward chapter.

Myke Hurley: I mean, it's just a different, I mean, it's not wrong, it's just a different way of doing business to what we like, right? Like, this is totally fine for them to do this if they want to, provided that they keep their customers happy, and it looks like some of their bigger, you know, their bigger fans are not happy anymore, but I don't think it's changing what you see in the workplace, you know? Right. So, I mean, I find it frustrating and kind of upsetting, because they can do better than they do, they can, and I don't think it would make too much of a difference to their bottom line, but it is a decision that they make. It's not the way I like to do business, it's not the way I conduct my own business, but that's the way that they choose to run theirs, but that's also why I don't buy any of their products. Right. Right.

Jared: So, it's, you know, even if they would just take the stance to say, you know, we really don't see our products as being, like, necessarily a fountain pen friendly product, but here's why it's really good. Yeah. Like, they don't even do that, they don't even care that much, you know, to say, use this, try this, and, you know, there's nothing inherently wrong with Moleskine as a product, and it's perfectly functional and usable. But there's just so many better choices, so many companies that aren't built on false marketing, like, the historical aspects of the brand.

Ink Choices

Jared: It's just, it just kind of stinks that that's the main focus for so many people when there's just better choices out there. So, that's always been my argument with Moleskine. I agree. It's perfect for a lot of people. So, there's just better choices and better options, in my opinion. And, you know, unfortunately, Moleskine is the, they did the marketing stuff right, but that's, it really came out in the article that that's what they care about more than anything, than any product they make.

Myke Hurley: In a way, I'm kind of happy that Moleskine believed the way that they believe, because it allows companies like Lodgeterm and Baron Fig to exist. Because these, you know, the customers of these brands are customers that are used to this form factor, and have maybe decided that they want to get a better product. And if Moleskine's paper was excellent, they would own it all. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so, I'm happy that there are, you know, there are other companies out there that can benefit from Moleskine's apathy. Right. Or Moleskine. Maybe we should just start calling them Moleskine.

Jared: So, we, that's one of the oldest tropes on the show, I guess, is that the proper word, is how do you pronounce Moleskine? Um, it was like early on.

Myke Hurley: They have, this annoys me so much that they have no official pronunciation. It's like, if you, if you want an encapsulation of everything that's wrong with that brand, that's it. They don't even have an opinion on how to pronounce their name.

Jared: Right. They basically, so the answer we got was basically do what you want. There's three kind of officially versions, but not officially. Moleskine is the official Italian way to say it. No one says that, though. Um, Moleskine is an option, and Moleskine is an option, and none of them are wrong, according to them. So, yeah. But branding, you know, whatever.

Myke Hurley: Whatever. Talk about branding.

Jared: Talking about companies and their business. Let's roll right back into branding. Talking about companies and their business. Lamy, ugh. What are you doing to me, Lamy? You're just making me talk about silly stuff. Um, so we were talking about the AL Star Pacific Blue release last week. We were concerned whether it was really metallic after some of the pictures we shot. It's definitely metallic.

Myke Hurley: Yep.

Jared: Um, and it looks great. It's an awesome looking pen. I love the color. And along with Lamy's pen releases, they do ink releases. And we were concerned that just in the first shot I had seen a week or two ago of Pacific Blue, that boy, that looks like Lamy turquoise ink. Well, it turns out that there's a good reason it looks like Lamy turquoise ink, because it is Lamy turquoise ink. So, my thoughts on this are wide ranging. Number one, I don't want to make a bigger deal out of this than it is. On the scale of things that are a big deal, this is like a two out of ten.

Myke Hurley: It's not one.

Jared: It's not a big deal. But the problem I had was when I found out and started asking around, Lamy did not tell the retailers that it's the same ink, right? Because it's now called Pacific Blue. It has a different box pattern and a new skew. So, if you're a vendor, you look at that and you go, great, I'm going to order all the Pacific Blue ink to go with these Pacific Blue pens, kind of like I did for Dark Lilac last year. And boy, that Dark Lilac, we sold the heck out of that. So, let me buy even more of this, because I ran out of Dark Lilac immediately. And you pay all this money, and then you get an ink that you already have. Just with a new brand. With a new box. Is it more expensive? Is it limited edition pricing? Last year, they weren't. So, like last year, Dark Lilac was $10.50 a bottle, which is the same pricing, I believe. So, you know, it's not that big a deal. It's not the end of the world. I just don't like how they essentially jobbed retailers in this.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, the only person that loses here is the retailer, really.

Jared: Yeah, and the reason why I always, you know, tend to fall on the retailer side on these things is because the retailers are the ones that are taking the risk for us. They're assuming the monetary risk so that we have nice places to shop. Yep. And when they're overspending and are trying to manage budgets, I would like for them to have the full information up front. I mean, this isn't going to hurt damage anybody. This isn't going to hurt anybody. If you don't have Lamy Turquoise, you should buy Pacific Blue because Lamy Turquoise is one of the great underrated inks. It's a really, really good ink. I use that ink frequently because it's that good. So, this will be a good ink. It's just, Lamy's just done some weird stuff this year or in the past year and a half. So, you know, it's a head scratcher. It was like, it went from, boy, that looks like turquoise to asking, is it turquoise? And then Lamy says, yes, it's the same ink as turquoise. Like, Lamy has said this. People I've talked to have said this, that they got that answer direct from Lamy, except no one knew it up front.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, it's like they're super willing to give the information when you ask. Which is a very strange way to do it.

Jared: So, I mean, in the end, no one's going to be sitting on Pacific Blue ink because, fortunately, it's a very good ink. The Lamy Turquoise is excellent and it's inexpensive, but it's just weird. It's just like, why do we do, these are not the questions we need to be spending five minutes on, on the podcast. But we do, anyway. Is some vendor doing something silly like this? I just, I don't get it, so.

Lamy Safari

Myke Hurley: But let's go from the bad Lamy to the great Lamy. Yeah. So, they have announced the Safari color. We were talking about this last week, like, wondering what the Safari limited edition was going to be. And they've announced the color that they're calling Petrol Blue. Is it just Petrol, right? Petrol, yeah. Petrol. And it's awesome.

Jared: It's awesome with a capital A. Yeah. It is so good looking. I'm all about this. Our good friends at Pen Chalet. Their blog post on it was pretty funny because they said, we're pretty sure this is going to do better than Dark Lilac. That's kind of a stretch, I believe. Settle down there, Ron. Dark Lilac is going to be the color that all future Lamy releases will be measured against. Petrol will not beat that in my book. But it will sell out completely. So, in that case, it is a complete unmitigated success. It also has a new ink, which makes me even madder about the stupid Pacific Blue. If you have the time to whip up a Petrol ink, change the turquoise into something else. Make it lighter. You know, do something different to the ink because clearly you have the time to do it. So, I don't know why. Anyway, back to Petrol. All about it. I'm all in. Definitely getting this. This is why I wait for the Safaris and don't go for the AL Stars because I like that style better. I like that matte finish, the plastic barrel, everything about it. The ink, it's probably going to be close to a lot of inks many of us have if you have an ink problem. It's like a dark teal, but it looks like it's going to be awesome. I will definitely get the pen and the ink for the Petrol. And, yeah, big fan. You like this one, huh? I freaking love it.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. Because one of the reasons is it's very similar looking to the blue we use for Relay.

Jared: Yeah. I'd like to see, like, when we get it in person, see how close it is.

Myke Hurley: So, I have pre-ordered with Pen Chalet both the Safari and, like, the fountain pen version and the ink. Nice. Because if it is close, that's going to be great for me. Yeah. Yeah, but I just think it looks great. I think it looks really, really nice.

Jared: It's a cool color for a pen.

Myke Hurley: Yeah.

Jared: Just like the dark lilac was. That was a cool color. They did really – they've done a great job on these last two not doing something green or yellow. So, they have it in them, apparently. So, good job, Lamy. Bad job, Lamy. Good job, Lamy. Yep. All right. Good job, CW Pencils, though. So, we had some – right after I said I'm subscribing to all the things, more subscription things came out. So, that kind of –

Myke Hurley: It is the season for subscriptions, isn't it?

Jared: Yeah. That kind of hosed up my whole setup. But I couldn't pass up on CW Pencils. So, they're doing a pencil box now. In the past, they've done a pencil of the month club, which I was never part of. They canceled that. And now, they just launched the pencil box, which is a quarterly subscription. It's $30. You get at least three pencils, at least one pencil accessory, like a sharpener, eraser, extender, a wild card item, like a notebook, pencil case, other accessories, exclusive ephemera, and whatever else we're excited about. What do you think about this, Myke? I think it's a great idea. You're not the pencil guy. I'm the pencil guy.

Myke Hurley: But, you know, what I was talking about last week was the fact that I've always really wanted, like, you to do a pen subscription. Right. Right. This is that for pencils. Because Caroline is the Brad Dowdy of pencils. Right? She knows her stuff. She is a – She's the top of her game. Right?

Jared: She is a tastemaker.

Myke Hurley: Exactly. Like, she is the top of the pencil game. She has it.

Jared: Yep. Yes. She has it. And whatever it is, I want to be a part of it. Yep. So, it was Insta subscribe for me. No questions asked. In CW Pencils, we trust. Yes, exactly.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, you just know that whatever you're going to get is going to be great stuff. Right. Because you know that the CW Pencils folk have got the taste and sensibilities that you're interested in before you even bother to subscribe. Right? You just know that right out of the box. Right. So, this is what I'm saying. Like, I think this is a perfect thing for them to do because it's, you know, you're putting your faith in their trust. You're putting your trust in them to pick the stuff for you.

Jared: You're paying for their taste. Exactly. They're – and fortunately for all of us, they have very, very good taste. After I subscribed, Caitlin, who is the marketing guru and the right-hand lady of Caroline, she reached out to me on email. She's like, hey, you know, you still want to have us on the podcast? You know, Caroline's got that book coming out. We just did the subscriptions. I was like, you know, we just mentioned on the podcast about Caroline's book and we need to get you on the show. So, we will have them soon. We're working on the schedule. So, we'll figure all that out. But, yeah, the subscription is something to check out. This version is already sold out. So, they're doing something which I think a lot of subscription services do, especially for the smaller ones. You know, you have to start out with X amount of number. What number can we commit to that we think we can sell? And then we can move forward moving those numbers up as things go. So, needless to say, I think they will quickly move the quantities up because they probably got a bunch of nasty grams in their email because it's sold out in days, I think. So, I don't know. No one knows the number that they're doing. But whatever it is, I anticipate that it will be more in the future. We'll ask them about it when they come on. When they come on. So, on the same day as the pencil subscription, and I'm like, oh, another subscription, the Ink Flight subscription came out. And this is by Ink Journal, which is the company of Tom Otto who works at Goldspot. So, he's done the Ink Journals for a while and he's doing an ink subscription service. I think this is good. I like, I don't know if I mentioned this last week. But I think there's room in the market for an ink subscription service.

Myke Hurley: I think this is one of the most logical.

Jared: Yeah. So, Goulet pens, once they stop doing theirs for a million good reasons, like they just, I think it's more of a time thing for them. Like the, what was their ink thing called? I'm blanking now. But anyway, they had an ink subscription service. I was, I subscribed to it for like a year and you get like five vials of ink, you know, sometimes based around the theme, sometimes based around nothing to, you know, to try and test out. So, they stopped doing that and. Ink Drop. Ink Drop. Thank you. Thanks, Tony. They, they did that and then they shut it down and then a small kind of random service popped up sometime last year. I don't even remember the name of it because it only lasted a few months and it went away. So, then there was nothing again. If there was anything I was going to get in, this is something I like gave some thought to. Like I could do this. Um, but I'm glad, I'm glad I'm not, I'm glad Tom's doing it and, uh, it looks pretty cool. It's called Ink Flight, which I think the great, the name is great. You get, I think five samples, you get, uh, an ink journal notebook in there so you can test out those samples and other samples you have and then you get it on a monthly basis. So, it's also sold out their first edition. So, you know, it's cool if you're a lot of people are really looking into like expanding and trying, it's a good way to test out inks you may not know existed and find something you like that you didn't know you would. Um, I thoroughly enjoyed when I was an Ink Drop member. I did have to have to stop eventually because once you get to about like 50 ink samples, it's like, hmm, I think I'm, I'm covered for a while. And, uh, yes. So, check out Ink Flight and that link will be in the show notes and good luck with that, Tom. All right, should we take a break?

Squarespace

Myke Hurley: Yeah, we can take a quick one. Today's show is also brought to you by Squarespace. Enter the offer code Ink at checkout and you'll get 10% of your first purchase. Hey, make your next move for Squarespace. They let you easily create a website for your next idea and with a unique domain name, access to award-winning templates and more, it's the perfect destination. Maybe you're looking to create an online store for the subscription service that you want to set up. Maybe you want to create a portfolio of your artwork or a blog to write about your favorite Lamy mistakes. Squarespace is the all-in-one platform that lets you do all or any of just that. There's nothing to install, no patches to worry about, no upgrades needed. You don't have to worry about any of that stuff. Squarespace have got it covered. They have award-winning 24-7 customer support. If you need any help, let you quickly and easily grab a unique domain name to give your site its own lovely brand. And all of the award-winning templates that they have are available to you. They're beautifully designed. They look great on all devices. And they're ready for you to show off your great work. Squarespace plans start at just $12 a month. And you can sign up for a free trial with no credit card required just by going to squarespace.com. And when you decide to sign up, use the offer code INK at checkout. This will get you 10% off your first purchase and show your support for this show. Thank you to Squarespace for their continued support with The Pen Addict over its entire five years of existence. Squarespace. Make your next move. Make your next website.

Jared: So I'm the guy that owns johnmalkovich.com, by the way. Oh, yeah? Yeah, yeah. So we had an interesting phone call, me and John, the other day. That's a Super Bowl thing again, right? Yeah, yeah. That was an interesting ad. I liked it. Well, I like Malkovich and I like Squarespace. What's not to like? I also like challenges, Michael Hurley. We got a new challenge and I enjoyed this one.

Myke Hurley: Challenge time.

Jared: I had a few challenges in the email queue. This is the one I picked for this week, which I quite enjoyed.

Myke Hurley: We need a challenge jingle. You know?

Jared: Yeah. Challenge time. You know? That would be perfect. All right. So this is from Parker. He says, hey, guys. I hope all is well. I had a question for both Brad and Myke. Let's say you have a Knocko Brasstown that you must fill in the following way. What would you choose? So Knock is obviously my company. The Brasstown is a six-slot pin case that rolls up into its little pouch. So there's essentially Parker laid out six headers for what would go in each of these six slots. So the first two were very interesting. So slot number one, we're going entry level rollerball. What did you say, Myke?

Myke Hurley: Retro 51 Tornado.

Jared: What did you say, Brad? Retro 51 Tornado. I tried not to. Like, I literally try not to. You would be lying. So, like, I could go Squire, but I don't call that entry level. Like, Retro 51 is probably not even entry level. At $25, Squire is twice that much. EDK is more than that. Lamy rollerballs aren't as good. The only other option I thought was if you're going very entry level, you could go Uniball Vision or Pilot Precise, which those are fantastic. But the Retro 51 has just got that little something. That's why we like it so much. It's worth the $25 to get into that pen and enjoy writing with it. Like, I sat there and racked my brain trying not to pick that pen.

Myke Hurley: There is no pen that offers the style and performance that the Retro 51 offers at its price point. I don't think there's anything, like, any type of pen in my opinion. Because it's not just the basic style of the look of the pen. It's the fact that you can pick from a massive amount of designs for a lot of the time exactly the same price. So, yeah. Yeah. Retro 51 all day.

Jared: Yeah. And sidebar, you saw the black matte logo, black logo Apple one we got in the Twitter bot.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, I've seen a few people tweet this at me. And I continue to be perplexed because nobody will give me the answer to the question that I want, which is, how did this happen? Nobody can answer this question for me.

Jared: So, number two, slot number two, entry-level fountain pen. What do you got, Myke? TWSBI Eco. I have the TWSBI Eco as well. I didn't intend on this. And I said, well, I could put the Pilot Metropolitan or I could put the Lamy Safari. But if I'm building out a kit and there's six slots, I want the coolest pen. The TWSBI Eco is the coolest entry-level fountain pen. And it works as good or better than any other entry-level fountain pen there is. I mean, it's just a good pen. You could go Platinum Preppy. You could go super cheap like that. I don't have a problem with that. You could go Platinum Playazier. The Eco is fun. It makes me enjoy writing. I have no bad words to say about Eco.

Myke Hurley: The Metropolitan is awesome. The Safari is awesome. So, when I'm thinking about when people ask me these sorts of questions, especially entry-level fountain pen, I'm thinking I have the opportunity here to turn somebody into a pen person. They are open to that. So, I want to give them something that I know is more likely to delight them rather than just satisfy them. And even though the Eco is more work because you also need to buy a bottle of ink, if you're in tune to that, I think that it's more likely to push you over the edge. Right. Because, you know, you can get any ink you want as well. Like, any color you can choose, just any ink. And it's not difficult to maintain. It's not difficult to fill. And those Ecos, they're like tanks, unlike some of Tuskegee's other goods.

Jared: Right. Right. Right. So, sidebar number two, TWSBI is now releasing the TWSBI Mini in the aluminum colors. They're starting with, like, the blue one that they did last year in the original 580. So, the TWSBI Mini is now coming in the colors. So, those look interesting. But, you know, I think I have two of those already. So, I probably won't go there. All right. So, slot number three in the challenge, Brasstown, is the techie slash cool function pen. So, give me something cool or techie to pop in here, Myke.

Myke Hurley: I'm cheating a little bit because I'm not going with a pen. I think it's valid. You think it's fine? I'm going to go with what we refer to as the pen show nib holder, like the lead holder. Lead holder. Mm-hmm. That I got from Kickstarter. Just because it's super weird looking and awesome. So, I would go with that. Right. Because it's, like, it's strange. It's not, like, high tech. It's very low tech. And I think that's kind of what makes it pretty awesome, to be honest.

Zebra Charbo X

Jared: Yeah. So, I went with the Zebra Charbo X, which is the coolest, still remains as the coolest multifunction pen on the planet. They use wonderful D1 refills with these great gel colors that you can get from Zebra. It's very techie. It's very cool. You can get them in, like, some carbon fiber materials. They've made them in the past. And it's just an all-around good pen. And when you show that to people and let people use it, they're like, oh, this is a really nice pen. It's just very, very well made for that type of pen. And I think it fits perfectly, like, in the techie slash cool category. Mm-hmm. All right. Slot number four. Fountain pen based on beauty and function.

Myke Hurley: What you got? Pilot M90. Which feels unfair.

Jared: No, because we're not building this for someone. We're choosing what we would do, is the way I look at this.

Myke Hurley: That's fair. That's fair.

Jared: Okay. So, I'm not telling Parker what to go put in his Brasstown for six slots. I'm saying what I would carry in mind if this was all I had and wanted to build out a specific kit for this.

Myke Hurley: But just flat out, I'm using it today. It's probably the most beautiful pen I own. And it's easily one of the best performing pens I own as well. There's just no question. This thing is just fantastic. It's just fantastic.

Jared: Yep. So, giving the beauty and function header, I chose another Pilot, but I chose the 823. Which is the big boy vacuum filler. Which, I love the pen. It took me years to commit to buying it, and then I regretted all those years I spent without it. It's beautiful because I like demonstrators. If you don't like demonstrators, you won't think it's as beautiful as I do. Um, it's extraordinarily well made. It functions really, really well with the vacuum filler. It holds a ton of ink. The nibs are wonderful. And that was actually kind of an easy choice for me. So, that's the fountain pen based on beauty and function. Pilot M90 for Myke. 823 for me. So, now the last two slots are essentially wild cards. I like that. So, in slot five and six, we each have our choices. So, what do you pick for slot five, Myke?

Myke Hurley: I'm going to go with my Carolina Pen Company, Brooks, Sky at Night, as I named it. Just because I love to look at this pen. Yeah. And so, that means I will always want to have it with me. Because I just like to look at it. I just think it's beautiful. I mean, you know, it performs fantastically. But for me, it really is just this beautiful custom thing that I own that I love very, very much.

Jared: Yep. Yep. That's great. I think that's a great choice. I went off the board a little bit in what we've been filling it up with so far. But it's still one of the best products on the market. It's the Rotring 600 Mechanical Pencil. Yep. I need a pencil in this kit. I wanted one. There's no better choice in my book. I enjoy it. I use it all the time. If I'm building out this brass town for me, I want to have some graphite in there. And I'm going to choose the Rotring 600. And I know you're a huge fan of that pencil as well. Huge fan.

Myke Hurley: Absolutely love that thing. I mean, the Kuro Toga is still like such a great mechanical pencil. But my favorite is the Rotring 600.

Jared: Yeah. I think it's number one, huge gap, number two. Yeah. Like, it's that good. It's that good. So, the final one is also a free choice here, Myke. So, what do you have in the last slot?

Myke Hurley: So, my final one would be my Sailor Pro Gear Slim. My orange one. It is between the Pro Gear and the M90 for the best pen I own. Like, it is one of those two. And basically, it depends on what I'm using that day. Results in which I say is the best pen. Yeah, yeah. But, really, like, I think you... I would be hard-pressed to say that there is a better pen than the Pro Gear.

Jared: I mean, I'm not going to argue with you on that.

Myke Hurley: I mean, you know I love them. There are many things. You can bounce backwards and forwards. But, like, if you're considering all categories, like, you know, you can get a Nakaya. A Nakaya costs, like, five times as much as a Pro Gear a lot of the time. And I don't know if it's five times better.

Myke Hurley: Sure. So, you know, I struggle with it. Because the Pro Gear, it's just... It's everything. It's everything you need. It really is. It's such a fantastic pen. And if you don't have one, I thoroughly recommend that you get one.

Jared: Yeah. And keep an eye on the pen internet. Because the Sailor Special Editions are flying around hot and heavy. I swear we've seen so many, like, in the past two or three months. It's like, I want to buy them all, but I can't buy any of them. I'm just, like, not. Because that's just a problem. There's so many good ones. So, you can certainly find something you like and find something that's, you know, very cool for you. And you know that's one of my personal favorite pens.

Myke Hurley: Another pen that you have a lot of options with, for sure. Yes.

Jared: Yeah. Tons and tons and tons of options. My choice was the TI2 Tech Liner. I use this pen all the time. It's been one of my favorite Kickstarter purchases ever. I love the magnet snap of the cap. I want a gel ink pen in this kit. It holds the Uniball Signo 207 slash 307 refills, which are amazing. You can get them in .38. The Tech Liners don't just come in standard type colors. You can get something that's etched or acid washed or short or long with a clip without. It's a super customizable pen. I wanted a gel ink pen in there, and I want it to be a real banger that I can take out and do crazy things with. I was very tempted to put in one of the Fisher Space pens there just to have another option in the kit, like my County Comm Embassy pen. But I think I use the Tech Liner more than that because of the gel refill. So, that's my choice. So, this was a good exercise. I did like this challenge a lot because we got some specifics. We got some open slots, and filling up those six-pin slots was kind of cool.

Myke Hurley: So, we mentioned at the start of the show that this is our fifth birthday. And this episode, this whole episode has been very fitting for an anniversary show. So, we had a Kickstarter, which has been amazing. We've had promises that we continue to make. That we can't keep. But we can't keep. We've spoken about Moskin. The Retro 51's gotten in there. We've complained about stuff that some brands are doing.

Myke Hurley: We've both spoken about some of our favorite pens. And now, we're going to complain about a Kickstarter campaign. Really, we're just giving you the smorgasbord of topics that you're used to. You know, the fifth anniversary episode is all about just making you feel comfortable and that you know you're listening to the show that you come to every week.

Jared: So, how's your Visionaire holding up?

Visionaire Pen

Myke Hurley: I came across that thing the other day. I love it. I love that I own it. It's one of, you know, it's a real, honestly, I consider it like a centerpiece of my collection.

Jared: Yeah. There's no doubt.

Myke Hurley: Because of just the history that this pen holds. I will try and find, like, an episode to put in the show notes if you're not familiar with it. But the problem is the Visionaire thing lasted for so long, I don't really know which one to put in.

Jared: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I think put in the one where I was texting Morgan during the show.

Myke Hurley: I don't even know what one that will be. Yeah, I'd have to find it. I don't know either. It's one of the first or second ones. Episode 64, Johnny Anypen, which is that episode, I think, was the beginning of the Visionaire. So, I'd recommend go back to episode 64 and then just listen over the next few weeks and you're gonna get what you're looking for.

Jared: Yeah. So, we bring that up because I got an email. This is a week or two ago email that I didn't know what would come of it. I just got this generic email from someone named Emmanuel saying, And being a huge fan of fountain pens, love the podcast, by the way, I regularly look for interesting ones on Kickstarter. I found the Flow a while back and realized it looks like a lot like the Parker Sonnet. I'm convinced that the Flow is a minimally changed Parker Sonnet clone and that the Kickstarter campaign is an attempt to sell a $10 pen for $35. It's the Visionaire all over again. And he linked me to the project. And he actually said, I appreciate it if the podcast audience could be warned about this. So, I didn't know what to think about it when I got this email. I was like, oh, okay. I hadn't heard of this Flow pen. And no one mentioned that to me before I received this email. And I click over to the link. I'm like, okay, this is interesting. You know, it's or uninteresting as the case may be. The pen is just, you know, mock-up drawings. No real pen. And then in the comments section, people had already started taking the project creator to task for tell me more, show me it in action. You know, the things that people should be asking any project creator to prove, right? You want my money? Prove it. And she continually delayed, pushed. At one point, she added to the fact. Someone basically called out, said, you're buying this pen from Alibaba. Here's the link. Which is what Visionaire did. For those, if you're not familiar with that, they essentially bought a $1 or $2 Chinese pen. And mass manufactured to fulfill these kicks as their Kickstarter creation. Like, this is, you know, this is, you know, the project creator's life work to design this pen, right? And all this fluff and nonsense. She actually put that she's buying it from this specific company on Alibaba, is the person making this pen. And people just flipped. Like, which they should have. And I, like, I don't even understand if she's trying to pull something over. Like, she screwed the pooch right there. But it was just an awful, awful project that was so generic and lacking in details. Um, the commenters were on it from the jump. It had raised $20,000. And about, what, five days ago, it got yanked. Thank goodness. From Kickstarter. How do these projects make the money that they make?

Myke Hurley: Where are these people coming from? I just don't get it.

Jared: So, like, once this, once I started reading the comments and reading all this, I was like, okay, let me do a little digging. And, like, you can't find anything on the project creator. There's no, nothing. There's, it's just someone wanting to resell the pens they get from, for $2, for $35. I mean, it's just, people think they can do this. Um, and Kickstarter. And it's not saying they can't do it. You know, go build your website. Do it. And that's fine. But going through a platform like Kickstarter, when you're not, you know, when you're posing as someone who created the greatest pen design ever, um, and it's highly, highly not unique. It's essentially just a copy of a copy of a copy of a knockoff, um, that you're paying, you know, $2 for and passing it off as something that it's just not. And, uh, thankfully, Kickstarter caught this one ahead of time, canceled the project. And, uh, but it's out there for all to see. It's just kind of an embarrassment. So, I don't know.

Myke Hurley: It's such a good design decision, um, from Kickstarter that when they pull a campaign, the page remains. Yeah. I think that that's a good thing. Yeah. It remains there for people to see it. Um, I think that that is a, it's not necessarily the decision to make, right? Like, I can easily see a decision of, like, no, the page gets deleted. Like, and both of those is acceptable. But I'm happy that they choose the option where they basically say, no, we, this isn't going to happen. Like, for whatever reason, we don't think that this is the right thing to do to keep this project going.

Jared: But it looks like the, since they make that choice, the comments stay open. So, if you were a backer, you can continue to comment. Not that there's anything more to say. I mean, it's done. And they've essentially been found out, if you will. But, um, I mean, even the user's account is deleted. The project creator's account is deleted. I don't know that Kickstarter does that. Or if the project creator just bailed once the project got canned, they deleted their own account. But their accounts, it shows up, like, all their comment shows is deleted. Like, the comments live, but the project, the user ID shows deleted. So, it's crazy. So, I'm glad people will take, well, yeah, take project creators to task. Take me to task. If I say something or do something, people wanted to know about the budget for the pin. Where's all this money for the, for our Kickstarter? Where's all this money going? I posted the budget. I mean, you should call project creators out.

Myke Hurley: Yep.

Jared: Like, and people were like, oh, wow, I didn't think you'd do that. And I was like, well, I'm asking for your trust. It's your money. Yeah, it's your money. Here's how we're, here's how I intend to spend it. It's like, I'm not trying to, you know, hide anything. So, why wouldn't I post the budget? I'm, I'm totally cool with that. And I think people who know me and know my history, like, you can ask me anything. There's gonna be things I can't tell you, but I'm gonna give you everything that I can. If you ask me for the, hey, what's this? Hey, it's not, why are you raising all this money? It's not that much to fly Myke over. Okay. Let me show you the budget for what we're trying to do. Oh, that makes sense.

Myke Hurley: Okay. Thank you. Yep. Because we got to bring in a team. There's not, it's just me to fly over anymore and we have to pay people.

Jared: And yeah. Yeah. But people want to know, take me to task and I'll give you an answer. And you know, I, we keep it open and honest like that. And you know, that's how I run my businesses. That's how I run the pen addict, knock everything. So yeah, it's good to have accountability. I mean, accountability, trust with the community. I mean, it's important. You know, if I screw up, I'm going to tell you, I screwed up. You know, I'm not perfect. There's going to be issues. But you're going to hear it from me. So, you know, we just try to work through these things and you know, it's fun, but this I'm glad that the community is taking these project creators to task and hold their feet to the fire and good things come out of it. Like getting, like saving these people from spending $20,000 on a $2 pen. So, all right, stop me.

Harry's

Myke Hurley: All right, we're done. Let's take a final break and we'll talk about our friends over at Harry's. And then I think we have some Ask TPA to do today. Thank you so much to our friends at Harry's for supporting this week's show. For decades, the big razor companies have increased their profits, but kept their prices the same or even increased their prices at the expense of their customers. So Jeff and Andy started Harry's to fix all of this. They knew there was only one way to ensure quality. So they went and bought their own factory. And by selling directly online, Harry's is able to offer their blades at half the price of big brands that you're used to. And with Harry's, you'll pay just $2 a blade compared to the $4 that you're used to paying at the drugstore. Harry's razors include everything that you need for a close, comfortable shave. They have a weighted ergonomic handle, five precision engineered blades of a lubricating strip and trimmer. They also have a travel blade cover as well. Harry's also have all of the extras that you need, like amazing shave gel or cream. All of Harry's products are built with a great sense of design. They're comfortable to hold and they're easy on the eye. They're smooth to use on the face. They're great to use in the shower now that they have a grippy handle, which is awesome. It's all great value for money. It's an easy shopping experience. Harry's is the place that you need if you need to shave. Harry's is so confident in the quality of their blades that they want you to try out their shave set for free. Just go to harrys.com right now and enter the code PENADDICT at checkout and you'll claim your free trial set. And because you're a listener of this show, you'll also get a bonus post-shave balm added to your order for free. All you need to do is pay the shipping. That's H-A-R-R-Y-S.com, code PENADDICT, to get your free trial set and free post-shave balm. Thank you so much to Harry's for their support of this show and RelayFM.

Jared: All right. So this first email is amazing for lots of reasons. It packs a big punch in a short time frame here. So this is from Kurt. The subject of the mail is pocket clips. And the message is, I'd like to see a podcast devoted to pocket clips. Personally, I hate them. Their usefulness long have passed. Do either of you guys even own a pocket protector? I can see pen cases, sleeves, etc. I use them all the time, but I don't carry my pen clipped to my breast pocket even when I'm wearing a shirt with a breast pocket. Pocket clips are the vestigal organ of pens.

Myke Hurley: Kurt's email greatly confuses me. Like, at a level that I can't even get my head around? Does he want to hate listen to this pen clip podcast? I'm not sure.

Jared: That's an awesome email. So I'll take it point by point. I'd like to see a podcast devoted to pocket clips. No. Do either of you guys even own a pocket protector? Yes. You didn't ask if I used them. See how you see that? Yeah, I own them. I don't use them, but I own them. I own a pocket protector. Karis Customs did some killer pocket protectors a few years ago. And I made sure to get some. And then people have sent me other pocket protectors in the past that I have sitting around. I can see pen cases, sleeves. I use them all the time, but I don't carry my pen clip to my breast pocket. Pocket clips. Is it vestigial? How do you say vestigial? But I know what it means. But yeah, whatever. So anyway, Kurt, I'm with you. I can't argue against this. Like I have pens I absolutely don't want pocket clips on. Like some of my fountain pens. I really, really love designs without clips. I still clip pins to my shirt.

Myke Hurley: And also I like it that clips stop my pens from rolling away.

Jared: Yeah. I mean, you know, there's a case to be made for no pocket clips. And some pens fulfill that. You're not going to find those on the regular, the mass market pens. They're all going to have clips because apparently their market research says that people don't want to chase their pens all over creation when they roll. More so than they want to clip them to anything. But I mean, I understand not having to want a clip. Like my TI2 Techliner has a clip option. I don't use it. My Kawekos. I'll have clips options. I don't use them. I love not having a clip on some pens. For some, it's mandatory. And I quite enjoy the pocket clip. But there's lots of options if you don't want a pocket clip. But, you know, I don't know how much support we're going to get for the full-on hatred of pocket clips.

Myke Hurley: I judge it on a pen-by-pen basis, personally. Yeah.

Jared: Yeah. Yeah. So I thought that was a great email, Kurt. We're just giving you a hard time. But it was hilarious. Yeah. I really enjoyed this. I said I'm totally reading this on the show because it's hilarious.

Myke Hurley: I'm all for people and their passions.

Jared: Kurt is very passionate about this. Commit to your beliefs. Uh-huh. I like it. I like it. All right. So this last one. And then we'll get out of here today. This is from Carl. And Carl is a bartender, as we will find out during this mail. He says, I'm a long-time listener. I don't really know how I found you, but I've loved the show for years. See? That's how we get our listeners, Myke. I have no clue, but I just listen. Just by random happenstance.

Jared: He says, I have two questions. First, after years of hearing about Fountain Pen from y'all's show, I just purchased my first. Hell yeah. Alami Safari. Good job. But I'm worried about one thing. I have not bad, but awful, abysmal, no good, downright, barely legible handwriting. Not important. Thank you. That was very good advice. Part of the goal in buying a fountain pen is to take the time to improve, but it's very difficult to know where to start. Are there any good tools you can endorse aside for just consistent practice so I can use, so I can improve? So, he has a second question. We'll get to that, but let's handle this first. There are several resources. It depends on how you write. Number one, like Myke said, it's okay if you have terrible handwriting.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, like only look to improve here if that is a goal that you want. Don't think that because you have a nice pen, you have to have nice handwriting. Like those two things, they don't go together, right? Right. I don't, I've never bothered to really practice my handwriting. It is what it is. I can read it. It's not great, but it's fine. And I use my pens because it feels nice when I write them and I like to look at them and I get great performance out of them. But it's not like I feel like I have to, you know, like if you, say you're going out for a nice meal, right? A good restaurant. You dress up. So, you know, you're kind of making yourself fit in with the establishment. It's not like that. You don't have to like dress up your handwriting because the pen's fancy. You don't have to worry about it. Like you don't have to learn calligraphy because you want to buy a flex nib. Just buy a flex nib and just do silly shapes of it like I do. Like these things, you can totally practice with it, learn calligraphy, take like cursive logic book courses and stuff like that if you really want to. But you don't have to. I'm all for like being the leader of bad handwriting club. I'm well up for that task.

Jared: Yeah, I love that. Yeah, own your bad handwriting. I'm totally for that. If you want to improve, Myke mentioned a few things. If you're a cursive writer, definitely look at cursive logic. It is so useful, so helpful. If you want to improve your print writing, look at some of the architectural videos on YouTube. There's videos for architectural handwriting. You won't end up with that style, but you'll learn movement and shape to clean up some of your lettering, if you will. That's what I do. So I'm a printer. So I look at that style. My handwriting has never been worse than it is right now. I actually need to go practice these videos and improve my handwriting. And it is just consistent practice once you will find that style that fits your need. Right? Like I go through changing letters every now and then, how I write letters, but it takes pages and pages and weeks of motions and repetitive work to get that. So number one, find something that matches your style. And then number two, it is going to take the consistent practice after that. Once you've nailed down, I think my handwriting would work this way. Then it's just going to be practice. So a second question. I work in a field, that's bartending, where the cheap ballpoint is king. He says, I am a bartender. Also, you know how many pens we buy in a year at an average bar. You probably don't. It's a lot. Being that I deal with the low end of the market a lot, is there an inexpensive pen that you would recommend for my bar and our guests? I would like to show the quality of our establishment with a great pen, along with the service and the drinks, of course. And I know that these pens walk out the door at an alarming rate.

Jared: The Uniball Jetstream Sport is what you should target. You can buy them in quantity for cheap. They're the most inexpensive Jetstream. They're going to write on that terrible credit card machine paper. They're waterproof. So anything that gets wet or damp, the ink's going to stay put. It definitely has to be something in the ballpoint range. The Jetstream is the best choice for that. The Jetstream Sport is the cheapest and most available in bulk option of the Jetstream. But I promise you, it's going to be way more expensive than any of the cheap stuff you get from whatever those services are now these days that are providing pens. Corporate Express, I think, is what most people use in the U.S. now. And it's just garbagio. So, yeah. Fight for the Jetstream. Bring your own. And tie a string to them, you know, to your belt loop so they don't run away. So, awesome. From Carl. Carl signs off his email. Friend, human, bartender. I like that.

Myke Hurley: Big three.

Jared: Yeah, the big three. So, yeah. That's a good email from someone that's just getting kind of started in this and from finding us randomly, apparently. So, all right. I think that's it this week, Michael.

Myke Hurley: All right. If you want to catch us online, there's a few places you can do that. You can go to relay.fm slash penaddict slash 243 to get our show notes for this week. Brad is at Dowdy. He is on Twitter, D-O-W-D-Y-I-S-M. And he's over at penaddict.com and knock.co. And he is penaddict on Instagram. I am at imike, I-M-Y-K-E. Thanks to our sponsors this week for helping support the show. They're the fine folk over at Harry's, Squarespace, and Mack Weldon. But as always, and most importantly this time, thanks to you for listening. And we'll be back next time. Until then, say goodbye, Brad.

Jared: Goodbye, Brad. Five years. Whoop, whoop.