The Pen Addict 188/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	188
Title:	We Just Effin Love Art Supplies
Release Date:	January 13th, 2016
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	Lee Rubenstein
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 188
Audio File:	Audio Episode 188
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 188
Length:	5656 min <br />0.933 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

Myke Hurley: From RelayFM, this is The Pen Addict, episode 188. Today's show is brought to you by Harry's. My name is Myke Hurley, and I'm joined as always by Mr. Brad Dowdy.

Brad Dowdy: Well, you're not just joined by me today, Myke. Oh, we have a guest today? We do have a guest today. Welcome in Mr. Lee Rubenstein from ArtSnacks. Hey, Lee. Hey, how you doing? Good, good. This is pretty exciting. I'm thrilled about this. I'm a huge ArtSnacks fan. I've known Lee online for, I don't know, it seems like it's been a couple years now, it seems like. And, you know, I love talking to Lee and talking about all his ArtSnacks stuff. But this is a pretty interesting cat, Myke. We found some things out about Lee that I was unaware of, that you were unaware of, and we're like, this is going to be, we're going to have some interesting conversation, I think, about this, don't you think?

Myke Hurley: Oh, yeah, I was, I learned a lot going through our show notes before this episode, I have to say.

Brad Dowdy: So are you nervous now, Lee? No, I mean, we know everything about you, Lee. Well, Lee's like, well, I'm the one who put it online, so I pretty much know what you're going to say.

Lee Rubenstein: Yeah, I mean, I like to do a lot of things, and I think the people around me know I like a lot of things, and I'm interested in just learning everything I can about anything. But before, I just want to thank you for having me on. I've been a long-time listener to the show, so thank you.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, absolutely. And it's actually been too long for us to have you on. We've been wanting to do this for a long time, so thanks for making the time. Now that our schedule is a little bit more normalized, I think we can get these awesome guests like Lee.

Myke Hurley: We can get these day workers, huh?

Brad Dowdy: I know.

ArtSnacks

Brad Dowdy: Well, let's get into it. Let's get into it, Lee. We're not going to start with ArtSnacks, even though I think that's what most of our listeners probably know you by. That's probably the only thing they know you by. But actually, you're kind of a big-deal Tumblr blogger with a blog called EatSleepDraw. I mean, this is no small feat. So why don't you tell us about the EatSleepDraw, which you've been running since, what, 2007 it looks like?

Lee Rubenstein: Yeah. So, all right. You want the long story. Here we go. Settle in, children. Settle in. So, everyone's familiar with the blogging platform Tumblr, right?

Myke Hurley: Mm-hmm.

Lee Rubenstein: Yeah. So, I was in the room when Tumblr was created. And let me just kind of back up for a second. So, I was working in this shared office space at the time. And there was a corner of the room where these two guys are working on client work and stuff like that. And it just so happened to be David Karp and Marco Arment. And I became friends with them. I didn't work for them. But they were building all the sorts of stuff. And they had, like, downtime in between projects. And they built this thing called Tumblr. And I thought it was a terrible name.

Lee Rubenstein: I thought it was a terrible name. And because I was like, what? What are you trying to be Flickr? And he's like, no.

Lee Rubenstein: So, which is ironic now because now they're both owned by the same company. But. Oh, that's true. So, he created this thing called Tumblr. And I was on Blogger at the time. And Blogger just felt like a lot of work. You know, my background is in art and animation and filmmaking. And I'm just, was very intimidated by Blogger because of the big white box and the blinking cursor. And so, when David introduced me to Tumblr, I was like, all right, yeah, I'll sign up. And then a month goes by and he's like, yo, Lee, did you sign up? And I was like, no. I was like, you should try it. I was like, I'll only try it if I get the username Lee.Tumblr because I can never get that on any social network ever. And so, he's like, fine, I'll give you Lee.Tumblr. So, I signed up. And then from that day on, I never looked back at my Blogger. I totally got it. Super easy to post. It wasn't intimidating at all. You want to post a picture, post a picture. You just want to, you know, copy and paste the chat, you can do that. So, I instantly got it and it was super fun. And so, a couple months go by and me and my buddy Ben were like, oh, let's create our own Tumblr log and just post artwork to it. And so, we did that and we called it Eat, Sleep, Draw. And so, we bought the .com. And it became more of like a ritual. At the end of the day, we would just post our doodles and sketches that, you know, didn't make the cut onto this blog. And it started to gain some traction on Tumblr in terms of followers. And this was back when Tumblr, you can only follow people. There was, I don't even think there was a like button. It was way, way back. And so, we built some momentum. And my friends were interested in Tumblr, so they signed up. And then I went to David because I got people that were interested in posting to our art site. And I was like, hey, David, I got all these people. They want to, you know, post on Eat, Sleep, Draw. How do we do that? He's like, oh, you mean like multiple authors? And I was like, yeah. And in the back of my mind, I'm thinking like, is this in the pipeline or is he just going to build it for me? And so, he built it and we had multiple authors on this blog. And so, any artist that I knew or emailed me would be like, hey, Eat, Sleep, Draw.

Lee Rubenstein: And then I would have to invite them to sign up for Tumblr in order to become an author. And it just kind of snowballed. After a couple of months, we had 50 authors on this blog posting at multiple times. And it was just totally random. And so, I went back to David and I was like, David, I can't keep fielding these requests for all these artists that like this blog that I made. Can you just build something so people can just like send them, send us their artwork? And if we like it, we'll post it. And he's like, oh, you mean like public submissions? And I was like, what? You totally had that built already, didn't you? So, for the first six months, we were the only Tumblr on Tumblr that had public submissions enabled. So, at the time, Tumblr was maybe 75,000 users, active users. And so, now I would get emails being like, wait, how did you hack Tumblr? I just submitted my artwork and now it's on the site. And so, it was kind of ridiculous. And then he eventually opened up public submissions. And so, now, fast forward, you know, seven, eight years, we're the largest user submitted blog on Tumblr. We have over 700,000 followers on Tumblr on that one blog. And more impressive is, I think, just the amount of artwork that we see submitted to Eat, Sleep, Draw every week. We get about 1,100 to 1,200 pieces of art submitted every week to our website.

Brad Dowdy: Wow. That's insane.

Lee Rubenstein: How do you manage that? So... You're not managing that directly, right?

Brad Dowdy: I mean...

Lee Rubenstein: No, no, no. So, my longtime great friend, Anthony Lamberti, who I went to college with and we have, you know, we both went to art school. And so, we know what art is good. And so, he runs the day-to-day operations of the site. He's the one that's looking at all of the art that's coming in. And I would say we approve one out of ten of every art submission. So, about 10%.

Brad Dowdy: That's a lot. I mean, that's a huge amount for the quantity that's coming in, I believe.

Lee Rubenstein: Yeah, yeah. And, you know, the vision, it's really his vision of, you know, what art is topical. And, you know, we care more about the quality of the art. We don't care, you know, what artist you are or if you have a big following. In fact, we've really gotten good at spotting up-and-coming artists and publishing them first. And Tony's been really, really great about that. And, yeah, it's just... I think one of our users or followers described it best as just this marvelous fountain of art. And that's basically what it is. So, he looks at all the art. And then we queue it up. And then so about every hour or so, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, all year, a new original piece of art that was user submitted gets published to Eat Sleep Draw. That's fantastic. Yeah, it's just an ongoing art gallery, really.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So, I followed Eat Sleep Draw since I kind of first ran into you. I didn't know about it before. You know, I do a little bit on Tumblr. And that's kind of, you know, where, you know, it's kind of like my inspiration board. You know, I'll save things and like things on there that I like. But I never knew this story until I started digging into this this week. And like my mind's like totally, totally blown. You're like Tumblr user number seven. And it's your fault there's user submissions. And essentially ask me anything or whatever, you know.

Lee Rubenstein: I don't know if asked me anything. I just wanted people to submit their art. I mean, I was in a very unique position at the time. And to have, you know, the guys in the room that created this thing that is awesome, you know, I'm not going to abuse that. Sure. That environment. I'm going to be like, okay, what can I do that's positive? What can I do that's, you know, would be exciting for this new community? And I just really like art. And I'm being very selfish when I'm like, I just want to look at amazing art before anyone else. And if we like it, we'll just publish it to the world. I mean, that's, that's the, you know, the core of the idea is just awesome art. We call ourselves an art gallery, but we don't really sell any art. We just like it, you know.

Brad Dowdy: So what were you doing at the time, you know, in that, that working, that workspace? I mean, this wasn't your job at the time. What was your, what was your job at the time? Or what were you working on?

Lee Rubenstein: I was working for Frederator, Frederator Studios. They're the largest independent producer for cartoons for Nickelodeon and Cartoon Network. Yeah. Yeah. So I was working there. And Fred, whether Fred knows it or not, I mean, he's really been like an unspoken mentor. I've just, my time with him, learning from him. I mean, he would pull me into pitches.

Lee Rubenstein: What is it? Adventure Time. That was way back, 2007, when no one even knew what that was. And I got to see the pilot and that sort of thing. So it was really, really exciting time. And then got, you know, kind of caught up in this internet video thing. And so then I worked for like an internet television, internet content company and got really close with Marco and David. I went to Marco's wedding. So it's like, you know, it really felt like, it really felt like a really small community. And part of me misses that. But art has always been constant in my life. And so I'm really excited to have eSleep Draw as this thing that keeps living on on the platform.

Brad Dowdy: So I hope David and Marco at least have taken you out to a nicer lunch than the chicken deli that you used to visit, right?

Lee Rubenstein: That chicken deli is still around. It's awesome. It's so crazy. They're not open on Saturday or Sunday, but yet they're still in business. I don't understand.

Art Snacks Concept

Brad Dowdy: So this obviously played into, I guess, phase two may be unfair. But, you know, there's this idea. When did this idea of art snacks start to like rumble around in your head? You know, you're doing this eat, sleep, draw. You've got your day job. Eat, sleep, draw is not your full-time job, right? You're working, you're doing both things. And how did kind of the vision of art snacks come in into play?

Lee Rubenstein: Right. So, I mean, I've always been very entrepreneurial. And so seeing the growing audience of Eat, Sleep, Draw, it's like, okay, what do you do with thousands of artists? So I was, you know, me and Anthony, we were going back and forth. Like, what do we do? Do we do a magazine? Do we do prints? Do we sell sketchbooks? Like, what do we do with all of these artists? And so we tried all those things. We had Eat, Sleep, Draw, magazine. You probably Google that. But we stopped that after seven issues after no one was buying it or downloading it. And it was just a terrible idea because I knew nothing about magazine publishing.

Myke Hurley: So there was a time where it seemed like digital magazines were going to be the savior of everything. That went away real quick when it turned out that nobody actually really wanted them. But everybody thought that they did.

Lee Rubenstein: Absolutely. So, I mean, I like to try a lot of things and see what sticks. And so we tried all those things. And because we had our, you know, day jobs and that sort of thing, like, it was just like projects. Like, I like projects. I think everyone that knows me always knows that I have some sort of project happening. And so, oh, geez, three years ago, almost four years ago, my sister gives me a call and she's like, hey, do you think your wife would like this thing called Birchbox? And I was like, what is that? And so she told me, you know, it's sample cosmetics and beauty products delivered in the mail every month. And I was like, oh, yeah, she would love that. Her favorite store, Sephora. She's a super girly girl. She loves that stuff. She loves makeup. And I was like intrigued by this idea that you would get a, you know, surprise in the mail every month. And so I asked my sister, I was like, oh, this is great. You should totally get this for Lauren. But is there anything like that for me? And she's like, you want smells? And I was like, no, no, no. Maybe you do, Lee. Maybe you do. No, no, no. So she's like, oh, well, what do you what do you mean? And I was like, well, is there anything like that for art or art supplies? Is there like a pen of the month club? I mean, I don't know. I mean, I don't know anything about fountain pens. I can just disclaimer. In fact, if I use them, I probably break the nib. But I have a heavy hand. But there was there was there was just this this business model. And I was like, oh, so these people are just shipping stuff and they don't know what they're getting. I was like, wow. OK, well, let's do some research. So my sister and I did some research. And the closest thing we could find was this like craft of the month. So you didn't know what kind of craft you were getting. And they would send you all the supplies and all the directions. And I was like, OK, so there's stuff out there besides beauty product sample monthly boxes. So I was like, OK, well, if it doesn't exist for art supplies specifically, don't you think it makes sense to try to make one and have a project? And she's like, OK, well, let's think about it for a while because my sister is the complete opposite than me. I'm like, yeah, let's do it. Let's go. And she's like, let's let's hold hold the phone here. So so for about three months, we kind of incubated this idea. What do we call it? You know, what does the box look like? How are we going to ship these things? So we had more questions than answers when it came to like developing a service. And so we went through all those steps. And then we were we were about to launch this thing. And I was like getting really nervous because like we didn't have like an advertising budget or anything like that. And my sister is like, no, dummy, we just got to make sure it works. And you just blog it on Eat Sleep Draw and hopefully people will sign up. And I was like, oh, damn, you're so right.

Myke Hurley: I have this huge audience and don't know what to do with them.

Lee Rubenstein: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I just got really caught up in the new project that I didn't even realize like, oh, yeah, we have like 500,000 artists in over there. Yeah, let's let's see if they like it. So, yeah, I mean, that's just how deep I get into projects sometimes. And it's my sister and and sometimes my wife to pull me out and be like, no, you actually need to be going over there. So that's the really short version. But I'm sure you want to tease it apart and try to pick, you know, my brain a little bit more about, you know, the ideation of ArtSnack.

Harry's Sponsorship

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, there's definitely some some things I want to get to. I think before we do that, Michael, I think let's talk about our good friends at Harry's.

Myke Hurley: You bet, Brad. This week's episode is brought to you by our friends over at Harry's. Harry's are awesome. And this is why we love them. And it's because they make incredible stuff. Right. And it's time to think about New Year's resolutions. You know, it's 2016 now. We're still in January. It's time for a fresh start and a new great resolution is for you to stop having to pay to get a great shave. And this is where Harry's comes in. Harry's make their own blades. The German engineered five blade cartridges. They give you a close, comfortable shave without cuts or razor burn. Harry's believes so much in the quality of their blades that they guarantee this quality. They'll give you a refund if you're not happy. So I'm sure that you're going to love them. But if for any reason you don't, they'll refund you because they really believe in their products. So they put their money where their mouth is. Over one million people have switched to Harry's and you should be one of them. So a couple of days ago, Idina comes in to the room and she's like, oh, we need to get some more of those blades because I used them all. It's like, okay. So, you know, this is, that is my girlfriend's stamp of approval. She uses my Harry's razor. And I know, Brad, that you have very similar problems at home as well.

Brad Dowdy: So this happened, this seriously happened about three, four days ago. I'm, I get a box in the mail and I'm sitting at my desk opening and opening it. My daughter comes by and, you know, I get tons of pens and paper. And I mean, every day I'm getting boxes, it seems like. And I'm sitting there, open the box just randomly. She hasn't seen what's on the box, what's inside of it. And I'm still like, you know, cutting it with the knife. She goes, is that another razor? And I'm like, how do you come up with that? Like, you're thinking it's another razor. When I get pens, like literally every day, how does this even happen? It's because she uses a Harry's razor and she wanted to know if it was another one she could have. So I just thought that, I just thought that was super cute. She didn't care about the, the pens or anything that I was getting. She just wanted to know if I was getting another razor. And I thought that I just died laughing.

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Brad Dowdy: Um, all right, Lee, so you and your sister, Sarah are, you know, taking some time to, to kind of get the game plan going for art snacks. I want to know what the brainstorming list for the name looked like. Oh my gosh. Because I think you killed it. I mean, you, I mean, you clearly, this one rose to the top for a reason, but how, how hard was it to come up with a name? Knowing that, doing that myself, um, that's like one of the most stressful things about starting a business. It's not even like, where's the money going to come from and where's the product going to come from? It's what are we going to call it? And we're stuck with that once that decision's made. Yeah.

Lee Rubenstein: I mean, uh, I, I love naming things, but I must say that my sister named this, uh, this company. So, um, that sounded painful for you to say. Yeah, I know, but my names were terrible. Right. So I had like art supply.me or whatever it was. It was terrible. I mean, I actually have, I'm trying to look up the list, but it's not worth my time. So, um, but that's the one that I do remember. And she's like, really? Art supply not me? You really want to dot me? I was like, eh. They seem trendy at the time, but, um, but art snacks. Yeah. So we knew we wanted to send four or five items every month. Um, but, uh, we also wanted to include a piece of candy, uh, which we don't really advertise that we send candy every month. And the candy is different as well as the art supplies. So, um, it's kind of like a little treat, uh, pun intended that, uh, you get, you know, you get your, your monthly serving of art supplies and then you get a little piece of candy. So, um, our customers, especially if they're a new customer, they just get super excited. They're like, what? Starburst? What? This is amazing. So, um, they get really excited and they chomp on their candy and test out their new supplies.

Myke Hurley: So one of my favorite things about art snacks, like the candy is great for me because most of it is stuff that I can't get in the UK. Right. It's American candy, right? So it's, it's totally, it's a totally new experience for me. I've had some weird stuff in those boxes, man.

Myke Hurley: Like the really soury things and stuff like that. It's like, oh, this looks like, oh my God, what's going on?

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. That's, that's huge over here. My kids fight over the candy. I mean, my, my daughter will fight over the art supplies, but they mostly fight over the candy.

Lee Rubenstein: Yeah. So that was like, you know, just a little bit extra thing thrown in the box. That's so cheap, but also so like exciting because you're not expecting it. And so we also, one of our core values of our company from day one was like, we want to surprise and delight our customers. And, you know, we've read all the books, the, uh, the Zappos books, um, and all that stuff. And so we really wanted to have a very customer experience focused company from day one. So that's just, just a little extra thing. It just so happens to be like, well, let's, you know, what about art snacks? And so my sister came up with this, this great logo, the pencil pretzel. And yeah. So good. Yeah. So, I mean, she's the creative mastermind behind the brand and she actually really has that brand experience. She used to work at Rue La La, um, doing their, their online pop-up shops. And, and, uh, um, then she worked at a men's fashion label for custom menswear called Blank Label. And so she's really approaching this company from day one as, okay, what would happen if, uh, an art supply brand or service was treated like a fashion brand? And so that's really our positioning in terms of our marketing and our creative.

Brad Dowdy: So, yeah. So do you recall what was in the first box that you built? I want to talk about that. I want to talk about how building the first box and do you, do you even remember what's in it? I remember a few of the items. It was definitely a Blackwing.

Blackwing Pencils

Lee Rubenstein: Um, because it was just so, I, you know, it's, it's, it's a thing that came back from the dead. If you know much about Blackwing and I'm sure your audience does, um, it came back from the dead and not many artists know about it and it's just a really good pencil. So I definitely remember a Blackwing in there. Um, uh, and I, it wasn't a 602. It was just a straight up Blackwing.

Brad Dowdy: Uh, uh, man, it's all on our website. Yeah, I know. I haven't, I'm staring at it. That's why I'm asking you. What's that doing? So you had the, uh, the Blackwing pencil, the Blackmat Blackwing, the Sharpie brush tip permanent marker, um, which you rarely see. I mean, that, that was pretty cool. You had the Spangle Green Mini Jumbo Triangular Learning Pencil. You had the Reeves Gouache Artist Paint and the Solo Horton Camel Hair Watercolor Brush Size 2. So when you're sitting there like planning this, tell me about just planning the first box. Like you, you want to get this right. I mean, that's a kind of an important deal. The very first one you're shipping out.

Lee Rubenstein: Yeah. Um, geez. Wow. These are tough questions. Because we, we've done so many boxes within the last three years. And my mind right now is looking like six months in the future of like what products we want to feature then. So going back to that first box, I think we just wanted to, um, put some items in the box that just, you know, you're familiar with a pencil, but you don't know Blackwing, right? Right. You're familiar with Sharpie, but they make brushes, you know, that sort of thing. So, uh, I think that was our thinking for the very first box. Um, but more importantly, we wanted to make sure that we could, you know, ship it on time and that it looked good in the box. Um, and that people felt like they were getting, you know, their money's worth because it is a blind box. Right. So, right. Yeah. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: I think that's what people look at a lot on the, like on the blind box things. They kind of try to do some math, like in their head real quick and say, am I getting, is this worth, you know, my, my money? And I, I, art snacks always has been because y'all do, which I'll do great. I think is fine. Just products that people haven't seen before. I mean, I'm one of the most dialed in people in the, in the, in the pen world. And you come up with something that I've never even seen before. And I just think that's so much fun to open a box and see all these cool things. How do you guys, between you and your sister, how do you like plan this stuff out? Like figuring out, you know, where you're going to find new products and sourcing them. It just has to be like a constant, not a battle, but it's just a constant work trying to put that puzzle together, I guess, every, every month.

Lee Rubenstein: Yeah. So, I mean, without going into specifics of our secret sauce. Um, but I can say that going back to that first box, like we're, if we're going to send you gouache, like we got to send you a brush. Right. So we, we, I can't assume that our customers has a, have a brush lying around. So that, that's part of our, our kind of curation. Um, we want products that work well together right out of the box. And we, we've been pretty, pretty set on that mantra from day one, box one. So that's kind of it. I mean, like you said, we're looking for products that are not only unique, but also super high quality and, um, nothing that you can find at Staples. Right. So like, um, a lot of, that's just our thinking. It's like, if you're subscribing to the service and you have to wait a whole month for it to come, what, why would we send you stuff that you can find in Staples if you can just go down the street and get the stuff at Staples? You know what I mean? So that's kind of our, our, our secret sauce positioning from day one.

Brad Dowdy: So, uh, yeah, I mean, yeah, no, I think that, I think that's great. And I think Myke, you got an art snacks box before I did, if I'm remembering this correctly. And I remember you enjoying that receiving things you would have never bought for yourself that you could go play around with. I remember this conversation now. I didn't go back and listen to the specifics of it, but that's coming up now that Lee's talking about this, right? I mean, you, you enjoyed getting these different things that you would have never bought and playing around with them and seeing what you like.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. Over the last few years, kind of like a dip in and out, right? So I'll get them for a few months and then stop again. Cause I just end up with like tons and tons of boxes. Like I just have, I actually have like a cabinet full of art snacks stuff, which is awesome. And cause I don't, I don't use it as much, right? Like, so I don't really do art stuff, but I like what I've always liked is like getting like interesting pens, like really strange stuff that I wouldn't have seen. Right. Cause it's more art supplies than like the usual handwriting things that I do. We will get to something that you're doing a little bit later. I'm very excited about, but I've always, I always loved the mystery of it. Like you just open this box, like what is this stuff? And my favorite thing that you guys do bar none is the little card, the card inside that tells me, cause otherwise there's stuff that I get in that box and be like, I don't know what to do with this.

Brad Dowdy: I could not, I could not agree more. And that wasn't in the, in the first, was that in the very beginning? Lee, did y'all do that?

Lee Rubenstein: Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think that's actually the most important item in the box every month.

Myke Hurley: And I, um, I think I found the first episode where we discussed it. Episode 57. I'll put that in the show notes. That was in June, 2013.

Lee Rubenstein: Yeah. And so Sarah is, you know, the copywriter for these cards. She and I test the products way before they're even considered for any box, uh, before we start, you know, curating for whatever month. And, uh, she does an unbelievable job, um, taking an item and very succinctly boiling it down to why is it here? What does it work well with? And why are we featuring it now? And, uh, I think also we recently put the retail prices in the box, uh, on the card. So that's something new, but, uh, we've always had that card. Um, and it's, it's, it's one thing to just get items in the, you know, but to have a brand voice of being like, Hey, you know, crank it's, this is where it's coming from and this is how you use it. You can drip it. You can do all the things. So, um, and, uh, it was really, really important from, from day one to have that little info card. In fact, people collect them for some reason. I, I don't know.

Brad Dowdy: I mean, I, I use them as bookmarks. I just keep them around and I'll, I'll slot them in a book for when I need it. Once I, once I read it, I always have to refer to them two or three times. Cause there's something in there like really interesting. I can't remember this one pencil from a few months ago that I had never heard of. I had to keep reading about it and I was like, Oh, that's just pretty cool. I'm glad they give me that information up front.

Lee Rubenstein: Yeah. Well, I'm glad. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's the brand voice. Um, and, uh, it describes the item and what it works well with. And I think, you know, it's, it's a no brainer to put it in the box.

Brad Dowdy: Do you see a change in what y'all have provided, say from that first box to what, what's, um, what you're shipping out now? I mean, is there any kind of kind of conscious change that you think's happened between these as, as the years have gone by and you keep building these boxes every month?

Retail Prices

Lee Rubenstein: Yeah. Well, the number one thing is we started putting retail prices for each item on the box. Um, so that's definitely a change. Um, in terms of the boxes in general, they, the quality of the items have gone up significantly as well as the overall value, um, as at the same time still being curated so that they work well together. And I think that's just the nature of just scaling a business. You know, you, you, you're bigger now and, you know, people want to be in your box, you know? Right.

Brad Dowdy: So, uh, yeah, go ahead. That, that kind of changed your life in a bigger way. Right. I mean, this, when you started this, this, you did not quit your job and say, Hey, I'm building art snacks and this is what I'm going to do this. At some point, um, you, you hit a threshold where art snacks is growing and you're like, I think something needs to change. Right.

Lee Rubenstein: Yeah. Yeah. So about two years into the business. Well, let me go back. So for the first two years, my sister and I were doing art snacks on the side, you know, we both had full-time day jobs and, uh, we saw the business growing. And then after two years, it was actually March, 2015. So last year, um, where I got like the go ahead for my wife to be like, yeah, looking at the numbers, it probably makes sense for you guys to, you know, focus on, um, art snacks full-time. And then, so, uh, it was actually really hard for my sister because she actually liked her day job working at a men's fashion, you know, startup. And, and so we really had, uh, you know, uh, to talk about it, you know, when would, when would be the right time and that sort of thing. So yeah, we're, we're a hundred percent full-time on art snacks, building this business. You're actually talking to 50% of the company. My sister is the other 50%. We don't have any staff. We do all of our own social media. We do all of the, um, the creative stuff on our website, the photography, the copy writing. Um, and there's so much more we want to do. And so, yeah, so it was really, really, it was a hard decision, but you know, we have great, great supporters, um, you know, telling my in-laws that, Hey, I'm going to, I'm going to quit my day job and focus on this art supply by the mail business. And they were just super great, super supportive as well as my parents. And so, yeah.

Brad Dowdy: And my wife. So Myke, it sounds like me, you and Lee have a new podcast, um, about. And quitting your jobs and going full-time doing something you love. Uh, I, I think we need to just go ahead and book that for the future. Uh, what do you think?

Myke Hurley: Good idea, bro.

Brad Dowdy: Just because that's what you need is, is 20, 20 more podcasts on top of the 20 that you already do. Right. I mean, I already have a name. I mean, it's three unemployed guys. So that's it. Fun employed. We are fun employed.

Myke Hurley: Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: So, so speaking of fun out of all these boxes, do you have a singular favorite product that you were either just love the product or you were super jacked to like be able to acquire it and get it into these boxes? Is, is, is, is there, is there a Lee special, uh, that you, that you just love?

Lee Rubenstein: Yeah. So the, uh, the Caran d'Ache, uh, Swiss wood pencil that smells like the chocolate forest of Switzerland. Oh yeah. You have no idea how hard it was to get that, that pencil in the United States. Right. Yeah. So it's, we weren't sure it was going to clear customs.

Brad Dowdy: Were you, were you sweating it? I mean, was that like a, a, like a legitimate concern getting that, getting that sourced?

Lee Rubenstein: Well, first of all, it's one of the best pencils I've ever had or held or smelled or used ever, uh, not just for drawing, but just for like note taking. So like, it's a super premium item, even though it's just a pencil. So it costs way more than a normal pencil, but also just trying to find a supplier that could, you know, get us the quantity that we needed on time. I mean, we're planning months in advance. So like we, we, we found this, this distributor and it was just, just like, oh my gosh, it does exist.

Lee Rubenstein: So yeah, I mean, that's my all time favorite pencil that we've ever featured. Um, any of the products from Crink are super awesome. Um, um, those are some, and they're also great people to work with. Um, there's also a brand called Aristo, um, and they make more technical items and I'm really, I'm rocking my Aristo DK 2.5 right now. And it's this amazing retractable mechanical pencil with a eraser that spins up, um, to

Brad Dowdy: erase. It's really cool. Anyway. I'm wondering if this, I'm wondering if this is the pencil that I was thinking about earlier that I couldn't remember, um, the name that I'd never heard of. I, I wonder if that's the same thing.

Aristo Pencil

Lee Rubenstein: Yeah. So Aristo, I believe it's Austrian and.

Brad Dowdy: This is, this is the one, this is exactly the one I was talking about.

Lee Rubenstein: Yeah. So the Aristo DK 2, uh, we've gotten emails because you can't find that mechanical pencil anywhere. They don't sell it online. Uh, I'm really amazed that we got it to be honest with you. Um, and so that's the sort of thing that we want to bring to our customers are these super amazing high quality products and art supplies and art materials that you're just going to want more of. And we're running into that problem now where there's a pencil that I really, really want. And she's like, listen, we can bring this over for you, but we're not going to sell them. Um, so if your customers want to buy more of them, they're out of luck. And I was like, ah, so, I mean, it's, it's stuff like that. Um, anyway.

Brad Dowdy: So how does it feel having to one up yourself every month? Do you, do you feel like, is that a pressure that you think about or you just think about putting together like the best box that you can every month and it is what it is. Not that I have to win every month, but over the last month.

Lee Rubenstein: Um, I wish Sarah was here to talk about that because it is a challenge. Uh, it is a challenge to, it's not one up yourself. It's more like keeping things consistent, right? Keeping on a consistent schedule, shipping out boxes, keeping the quality of the items super consistent. And that is challenging because there's times on our like master spreadsheet where I'm just like, yeah, we should probably add another item there, or maybe this is too much. And so we really don't know until the final item comes together after, you know, the curation process. And you're like, oh yeah. And people respond to it on Instagram and, and that sort of thing. And they're like, oh my gosh, Art Snacks, this is the best box ever. And so that makes you feel good. It's kind of like making a movie actually, you know, you, you write the script, you shoot everything and then you don't know until it's in the theater and people respond to it.

Brad Dowdy: Right. Well, on the flip side, have you ever put a, like just a mega dud in the box that you're like, oh, this did not work out as I anticipated?

Lee Rubenstein: Um, not the entire box. We've had an item. No, no, no.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Like a single product. I mean, you don't have to call anyone out by, by name, but.

Lee Rubenstein: No. Yeah. Oh, it, it happens. You know, there's, especially on some new items, you know, the manufacturing process is not, you know, a hundred percent yet. And so there may be defects, but you know, if there's anything that comes up like that, you know, we're pretty responsive. Uh, we take great pride on our customer service in terms of, you know, if there's a defective item, just let us know, send us a picture. We can set it back to the manufacturer, let them know how to improve their manufacturing process. Hey, you know, the ink leaked off the side of the cap nib or something like that. So, um, and our product partners really value that feedback. Um, and then if you let us know, we'll just send you a new one that works. So, I mean, we're pretty, pretty open like that.

Brad Dowdy: So, aside from putting together this box every month was just, just to me, it, it's a got to be a really, really difficult thing to do. I mean, this is, this is not an easy thing to, to put together and you've obviously, you know, got it down to a science between you and your sister. I mean, y'all just nail it every month. You decided to double down and do more, right? So you not only have these, you not only have this monthly service that's just killing it and, you know, you've quit your day job, you're doing this full time. Let's throw some more stuff on it and do this thing called Art Snacks Collections. Why don't you give us kind of the overview of how that came about and what the collections are as far as in the Art Snacks lineup?

Lee Rubenstein: Sure. Yeah. So, uh, Art Snacks Collections, it's a series of bigger boxes. Um, I don't know if we touched on this, but our, our normal regular monthly boxes are very small and linear. They're about two inches by two inches by nine inches long. And, uh, they fit really nicely into about 90% of all mailboxes in America, but also more importantly, they, uh, they fit about 90% of all, uh, art supplies ever made. So that's why we chose that box. But throughout the year, we also find these amazing sets, um, that just won't fit into our small monthly boxes. So Sarah and I created this collection series where it's a bigger box, um, a full range of colors, um, big notepads and sketchbooks and stuff like that. Um, and so we find these great products throughout the year. And so we, we curate those as well into these bigger boxes and we kind of put loose themes around them. Um, the first one we ever did was, uh, last year or the year before. And it was the, uh, the Arts Next Studio Collection, super premium, higher price point than our normal monthly, uh, box and, uh, not on a subscription. So if you just wanted to buy one time, that's it, we'll ship it to you. And so it's about eight items. Um, and you know, the retail value is way more than what we, than what we charge for it. And so that was the studio collection. And then, uh, we were like, oh, it did really well. Let's, let's do like a summer, uh, collection as well. Um, and so we came up with the Arts Next Travel Collection, which we launched in June, 2015, I believe. And then, uh, those were items that are super high quality, but maybe great for traveling or going to the beach and sketching or going to the park and doing some watercolors or just throwing in your, uh, carry on and hopping on a plane and going to the Caribbean or whatever. So those are more like not smaller items, but travel friendly items, um, that are completely different than anything we've ever featured in our monthly boxes. So really, you know, we're all about curation and connecting the dots about what works well with what and in what environment. So that's, that was the travel collection. Uh, and then we did another studio collection this past holiday season, which went tremendous. And we sourced some product from just some amazing manufacturers and brands, Lacoste. We had this like metallic set of three acrylics with like real flakes of copper and stuff like that. Just like super premium stuff that you're definitely not going to find in your local art store. Um, and so that went really well. And so this year we're, we're really, you know, we're going to continue with our monthly boxes and make sure those are really, really super, uh, high quality, but also, you know, do more of these bigger boxes because there's just so much product out there. And, uh, what we actually launched yesterday was the, uh, first of like a discipline specific collection. Um, and there'll be more collections throughout this year. We're definitely going to do, uh, another travel collection this summer. And then every year we'll, we'll do another studio collection and the products are different from year to year. So even though it's called the studio collection, you're, you're going to get completely different products than the previous year studio collection. So these are really, truly limited edition, one-time big boxes. So, um, yeah, pretty excited.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So like in each of these boxes, and we're going to talk about the new one in just a minute because I'm mad at you. Um, the, I'll tell you in a second. Um, the, um, so you're not only, uh, getting these, these, um, larger size, you know, more, um, you know, more specific to the collection items. You're doing even more with each in either launching a product with a retailer or getting a first look at a product to, you know, something that's going to come out in the future. How did, how did that come about to be part of the boxes? I think that's what, one of the key parts of the box. I like, I like, you know, getting, you know, you know, first, first look at something or something that hasn't been launched before. And, and full disclosure, you and I worked together, um, with knock for the travel collection last year. Yeah. That just, that went extremely well, but I just like how, how did you decide to have this, this little bit of added exclusivity in the, in these boxes?

Lee Rubenstein: Yeah. We just think, you know, we just want to make cool stuff. And I think it just comes down to that, you know, in the core of our business, you know, we just really effing love art supplies, you know? Yeah. And, and, uh, if there's an opportunity to make something new that will add value and, um, you know, excitement to whatever we're doing, even if it's a regular monthly box, I mean, we've done limited edition and exclusive first look products with our monthly boxes. That's true. That's true. That's right. So, but with the, the, the, you know, the studio collection and the travel collection and some of the other collections, you know, we really, you know, uh, these product partners that we deal with, you know, we don't call them vendors, we call them product partners because we're actually working with them to develop new items. We're in their product pipeline. And so when, you know, there's a, there's an item that we feel makes sense, um, we'll, we'll help them develop it.

Brad Dowdy: And, uh, yeah, I don't know if that answers your question. No, no, no. I, I, I think that perfectly answers it. So, um, we didn't necessarily plan the podcast around the, the launch of this collection, uh, you launched yesterday, which is the lettering collection, which just kind of, kind of happened. And I'm mad at you because you cost me money. So as soon as that happened, I was like, oh man, they, I know what ArtSnacks does. And to do this lettering collection, which, you know, I'm not like totally into lettering, but I want to be into lettering. So I was like, oh, I've got to order this box and it's costing me money. And, uh, uh, but I'm so, I'm so excited about this box. So tell us how the lettering, uh, collection that launched yesterday, uh, came to be.

Lee Rubenstein: Yeah, I think Sarah and I, you know, we're, we're just really good at spotting trends, right? So, and, and, uh, not just with trends in fashion. I mean, Sarah's very, very focused on, on, you know, what's new, what's hot, what's that sort of thing. But in like, how do you translate that to the art materials or art supplies industry? And we just see the rise of, um, you know, creating beautiful letter forms, not necessarily calligraphy. I must say this is not a calligraphy box. There's a very distinct difference between calligraphy and lettering. Lettering is the form of actually drawing the letters with no typographic standards or repetitive styles. Lettering is, uh, different because calligraphy is repetitive styles, right? So you're, you're not lifting the pen or maybe you are, and then you're doing flourishes at the end. And so this is more of like illustrating letters. So that's what we really wanted to make sure was clear when we were launching this collection. And that was actually something we were wrestling with. Like, are people going to be confused or upset when they don't have calligraphy stuff on their box? And so hopefully we made it very clear that, you know, you're illustrating letters and you're not doing calligraphy. So, um, that's just one thing that was challenging for this box. Um, but we also wanted to, you know, dive in a little bit to a very specific discipline, the travel collection, not really specific. The studio collection, definitely not specific at all. And so lettering is more of a focused discipline that you can learn. Um, and so, uh, to put it over the top, we reached out to our, our friends at Skillshare and we're like, Hey, we're thinking about doing this. And, you know, it's crazy expensive to produce our own lettering instruction videos. Why don't we team up with you? You have a great catalog of lettering classes available. Maybe there's something we can do together. So that's, that's what we did.

Brad Dowdy: That's really cool. Um, and I, I love the, the fact, you know, nothing against calligraphy, but if it was a calligraphy box, I wouldn't be interested. This is like exactly what I'm interested in. You know, this type of, of writing style. So, so we definitely read your mind. Yeah, you totally read my mind. This is like, this is like the Brad box, uh, if you will. Um, you know, cause I've been like calligraphy, you know, I'm not into like the fixed letter forms necessarily of calligraphy and it's, it's a great style and my, my handwriting can, can do calligraphy, you know, pretty well, but I wanted to learn about, you know, these different kind of more artistic forms. And, uh, I I'm pretty excited about this box if you couldn't tell.

Lee Rubenstein: Yeah. I mean, I think you were upset because you knew it was going to come on and then I was like, oh yeah, well, we're going to launch something that week. And then I didn't say anything. And they're like, yeah, come on Lee, you gotta give me a hint.

Brad Dowdy: I know. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I had, I had no, uh, until I got, uh, I don't know if it was an email or a tweet and I was like, uh, Lee, you got me there. Um, but were you having a little bit of a breakdown on, I think it was Monday. Uh, you know, I'm sitting here watching my, my Twitter feed and, and, uh, at Lee Rubenstein tweets out shipping is hard. You know, were you, were you having some second thoughts here?

Lee Rubenstein: No, no, no, no, no. Uh, we, we actually have a great, um, uh, fulfillment partner. So we have a warehouse, um, for the first eight months of the company, like we were shipping out of my one bedroom apartment in New York city, which was just insane. And I do not recommend it in the year that you want to get married. Cause that's a terrible idea.

Lee Rubenstein: Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: We could, Jeff and I could tell you some stories too.

Lee Rubenstein: Yeah. But, uh, you know, we, we do have, uh, we do have some, um, we just have issues, you know, it happens, you know, we just feel for our customers, you know, uh, it's stuck in customs. I mean, we shipped to 27 different countries around the world. It's insane. And so, yeah, it's, it's, it's gotten way bigger than we ever thought it would be. We have a great fulfillment partner. We just have a new international shipping partner as well. And so, you know, there's kinks, it happens, but, uh, uh, and it's never going to be perfect. So, and, and when a customer emails in and Sarah and I talk about it, I'm like, yeah, I know it's, it's hard.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah.

Future Plans

Brad Dowdy: So, so what's next? I mean, you, you're, you're firing on all cylinders right now. I think, you know, from, from at least the, the public person per perspective and, um, you know, I, I think, you know, art snacks is really like hitting its stride and everything's looking awesome. And, you know, you've introduced these collections. Is there something else y'all are, y'all are working on that you can share with us or, or maybe just a general, uh, idea of, of what's coming in the future for, for, uh, you and Sarah?

Lee Rubenstein: Yeah. So, um, I'm not going to disclose everything cause, uh, that's not fun, but, uh, it's actually more fun to have you squirm and then be like, Lee, you cost me money. Um, but we're definitely going to be doing the travel collection this year. We're definitely going to be doing another studio collection this year. We're going to add in a couple more of these big collections, which I won't name. Um, but there's some really, really cool stuff. We have some calls lined up, um, some collaborations. So like this, this, uh, this lettering collection, we collaborated with Skillshare because we don't just want to give you, uh, supplies. We want to give you some instruction as well. And so we're going to do more of that collaboration and hopefully a couple of them work out. We still have some kinks to work out, but we'll do more collections, uh, more discipline specific collections possibly. Um, and you know, continuing to provide a monthly service, um, as always. Um, and we actually have a lot of customers that, you know, we're, we're customers of ours for like a year or so. And then they're like, you know what, I'm going to take a break. And then we come out with these collections and they're like, oh, well, this makes sense. So, uh, we have people that buy these collections that are no longer monthly customers, but still like what we're doing and want, you know, these super high quality art supplies. So that's really nice to see, you know, different price points for different people. Um, and yeah, I mean, we just have a list of so much stuff we want to do. And so the challenge, at least for this year is, you know, how do you do it with just two people in a warehouse, right? Eventually we're going to have to hire somebody and, you know, taking all that, that knowledge that we've learned over the last two or three years, it's, it's going to be difficult to give up, you know, part of your baby, you know? Absolutely. So, uh, those are some of the things we're, we're thinking about and we're struggling with and stuff like that. But other than that, you know, the launch yesterday was just unbelievable. We had a tremendous response to this new collection. Um, I mean, it was, it was really, really, really amazing. So that's all I can say about that, unless you have any followup.

Myke Hurley: I'm super excited about the letter in box. I ordered mine yesterday. Um, and part of it for me was the, the collaboration with Skillshare, because I am a massive fan of Jessica Heche's work. Um, so the thought of me getting some tools to do it and then having her teach me whilst I don't think I could do anything nearly as good, uh, that definitely tipped it over the edge for me. It was like, yes, that's the perfect, that is the perfect mix of stuff.

Lee Rubenstein: Yeah. Yeah. We're really, really excited. We didn't know how deep they wanted to, you know, partner with us. So when they came back with like, yeah, we're not just going to give people access to just these specific lettering collections. We're going to open up two free months of Skillshare, Skillshare premium so that you have access to our entire catalog. We're like, yes, please.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. And I, I bought Jessica's book for Christmas for myself. And I was like, I, this is what I want to work on next year. So it was like perfect timing. So it's really cool.

Lee Rubenstein: Yeah. And you know, the timing of the box, you know, new year, new skill. I mean, we worked with a great, uh, letterer, um, Jake, uh, and, and he did all the, the hand lettering on our, um, on our, uh, product page.

Brad Dowdy: So yeah, I saw you sent out the, the link to his Instagram and I wouldn't follow him. So that was a, that was a cool follow. His, uh, his stuff looks really great.

Lee Rubenstein: Yeah. And in that box, you know, it's not, you're not just going to get stuff for lettering. I mean, because it's kind of crazy, you know, we're selling just a box. You don't know what's in it. Right.

Letter Box Contents

Brad Dowdy: Right. And then go ahead and tell us, go ahead and tell us what's in it. Well, no one's no one listens to this show.

Lee Rubenstein: Well, there's eight full size essentials for experimenting with lettering and illustrating lettering. We do have an exclusive first look product in this collection that we're working. Uh, it's actually being manufactured right now. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: Who makes it? Uh, yeah. Nice try.

Brad Dowdy: I'm like really excited for you and your sister. I'm like, I don't know. I've been, you know, in, in this world myself now and working for myself and seeing what you guys have done is, you know, super helpful for someone like me, just kind of, you know, and it's great to know you, you know, online to be able to pick your brain. We can bounce things off each other from time to time. And I'm just like, so I feel like I want to say I'm proud of you, like, you know, like, like we're related, like, you know, you're my brother or something, but I really am to see someone come into this market and do it so well, so well thought out and just, you know, continue to nail it like every month. Now you guys bring it. And, uh, I'm just, you know, I'm really, I'm grateful that this, that art snacks exists to give this community kind of exposure into stationary and analog tools and art and all these things that we talk about every day. And I just congratulations for just making a killer product. Um, and, um, you know, tell your sister congratulations as well. And, um, I'm just really, really excited for you guys and what the future holds.

Lee Rubenstein: Well, thanks. I mean, it's, it's, it's just really, uh, it's totally humbling. You know, I have a great team, I have a great fulfillment partner, I have a great sister slash business partner, I have a great wife. So it's really like, if you have the people around you to, you know, execute, if you have this crazy idea to send art supplies in the mail, I mean, right. Like, and it just works. And if we can do it at a super high level and just keep it consistent, um, yeah, who knows what's going to happen. So, uh, I super appreciate you, uh, you know, having me on the show today and Myke, thanks for having me on.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, we will definitely do it again soon. That's for sure.

Myke Hurley: Yes. Absolute pleasure to talk to you, man. I've really enjoyed this and thanks for helping me spend so much money. You're welcome.

Myke Hurley: All right. If you want to catch our show notes for this week, you'll find a link to everything we've spoken about. You can find all of Lee and ArtSnacks' great stuff over at relay.fm slash penaddict slash 188. If you want to find Brad online, he's over at penaddict.com. Um, and it's also at knock.co and he is, uh, at dowdyism on Twitter, D-O-W-D-Y-I-S-M and penaddict on Instagram. Don't forget to sign up for a penaddict membership over at penaddict.com if you haven't already. The first newsletter went out last weekend and it was awesome, Brad. Bravo. So people, uh, they want to, they want to make sure that they get involved in that.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Lots of good feedback on that. I appreciate it.

Myke Hurley: Good. Um, and I am at imike, I-M-Y-K-E on Twitter. We'll be back next time. Thanks again to Harry's for sponsoring and thank you for listening. Until then, say goodbye, Brad. Goodbye, Brad. Say goodbye, Lee.

Lee Rubenstein: Bye, Lee.

Myke Hurley: Bye, Lee.