The Pen Addict 342/transcript

The Pen Addict Podcast Transcript
Episode:	342
Title:	They Made It More Boring
Release Date:	January 16th, 2019
Hosts:	Brad Dowdy Myke Hurley
Guests:	No guests this episode
Additional Information
Official page:	Episode 342
Audio File:	Audio Episode 342
Podcast page:	The Pen Addict 342
Length:	5757 min <br />0.95 h <br /> minutes
Previous Transcript	Next Transcript

Myke Hurley: From RelayFM, this is The Pen Addict, episode 342, and today's show is brought to you by FreshBooks, Pen Chalet, and Harry's. My name is Myke Hurley, and I'm joined by Brad Dowdy. Hi, Brad.

Brad Dowdy: Hello, Hurley, Michael. How are you?

Myke Hurley: Good, thanks. Thanks.

Brad Dowdy: So, you know, I told you in the pre-show, I'm a little bit hyped up today, and just because, do you, does it happen to you when you get really busy? You, like, you can continue on the busy train, like, you have this adrenaline going, you just want to, like, solve all the problems and do all the things. That's kind of the, that's kind of the ride I'm on this morning.

Myke Hurley: I don't know if I get like that. I think I'm more of a crash person. Yeah. After a busy spell.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So, like, from the moment I woke up this morning, you know, I've pretty much been going and continue to go, but that's, like, a happy maker. Like, it's been positive, and things are getting done and accomplished. So, you know, checking off the checkboxes. So, my knife came. Nice. So, let's cut to the chase, Myke. Hey-o! Hey-o!

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, so the James brand, I actually forgot you actually ordered it on the show. Yep. While we were on the show. So, tell me which model you got and which setup you got.

James Brand Knife Discussion

Myke Hurley: So, I got the Folsom. We have a straight blade in the electric moss and stainless steel color, which is, like, the case, I guess, if you'd call it that, is green. It's, like, a bright green. Okay. And then the knife is stainless steel. Nice. Because they do a bunch of different ones, like, different colored blades and different colored kind of, like, outsides and stuff like that. Mm-hmm. So, the packaging was awesome, as you'd imagine, because it was a very hipster knife. Mm-hmm. I even liked the packaging. So, it came as, like, a cardboard sleeve wrapped around, like, a wooden box. Mm-hmm. And then the knife was inside with this little felt pouch. So, you would push the box out, right, of the sleeve. But the sleeve had a sticker on it. And it had a line on it. And it just said, first cut. Mm-hmm. And I really liked that, because it's, like, they designed the packaging for you to cut it open after you've unboxed your knife. Right. So, the first time you cut with the knife is using it on the packaging that it came into, which is kind of funny. That is. This knife is so friggin' sharp. My gosh, Brad, I'm so scared of it. It is so sharp.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, I have one of the teeny tiny ones, and I took it out, and it's almost so sharp it's, like, invisible. Like, it's just, it's hard to explain how sharp they bring these things. I'm going to have an accent with this eventually.

Myke Hurley: It is literally a matter of time until I cut myself with this knife. One of the problems is the knife that Jeff gave me, like, I kind of would fidget with it, which is a ridiculous thing to say, but I am that human. Can't do that with this knife. The knife cannot, because, like, you know, that knife was a little bit duller, and it just dulled over time, I think. But this one is very sharp, which is great, because I can open, and whatever I want to do with it, whatever I need to cut, I can cut very effectively.

Myke Hurley: But it is very sharp. I'm scared of it, right? Because it's that mechanism, I don't know the name, where you kind of have to, like, after it's opened, you have to, like, push the little metal piece inside of the grip to unlock it, right? Right. And I'm, like, super hesitant when I do it in case I accidentally cut my thumb off.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, so, speaking from experience, you don't want to cut your fingers. Like, if you're going to cut somewhere, cut your arm or your leg, because when you go to get stitches, the needles in your fingers hurt a lot more than the needles in your arms and legs, because of all the nerve endings in your fingers.

Myke Hurley: My ideal goal, though, is to cut nothing. Okay. And I also feel like, if I somehow cut my leg with this, things have gone very awry at that point.

Brad Dowdy: I don't know, you could be trying to, like, wiggle some pin cap off and, like, just shoot it across your leg.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, I don't think I would ever use a knife for stuff like that. This is purely an opening box device, mostly.

Brad Dowdy: But you're happy with it. Oh, I love it. It feels good. Yeah, I love it. It feels like you got your money's worth value-wise. A hundred percent.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. Yeah. It really does. Like, it's built incredibly well. I like all the little details. The design is really good. I love the way that the kind of the case feels. It's this really interesting grip, which is good, right? Because something sharp like this, I want to feel like I've got a good handle on it. You know, like, genuinely. Like, I want to feel like I'm in control of it when I'm using it. And I do, because it feels so good to hold.

Brad Dowdy: Oh, that's a huge... Handle design is a huge part of knife design. I mean, handle design is completely one of its own things. It's, like, very important to get the handle design right in a knife.

Myke Hurley: And I think they've done that. I really like it. I really like it. It has a clip on it. I can take or leave the clip, personally. But I get why the clip is there, right? Because you clip it to your pocket or whatever. But I'm never going to take this knife outside, you know?

Brad Dowdy: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. So, yeah. It's your indoor hipster knife. Yes, exactly. I mean, that's what it is. Yeah. And we say hipster lovingly. We're hipsters. We, like, love this stuff.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, this is... I mean, I've bought this knife... We're pro hipster. Exactly. I associate with this design and brand. Right. Because of its hipster nature, right? Right. Made by some people, thoroughly, like, thought out and nicely presented. It doesn't look like a tactical tool, right? Like, I like it. You know, I think they've done a great job of it. So, I'm a new fan.

Bureau Direct Transition

Brad Dowdy: Very cool. I like it. I think they're doing good stuff. So, that's... I've been following the James brand since day one, but I've never really been a customer until recently. But that's because they continue to improve on what they're doing, and they're doing interesting things, and they kind of fit in our whole sphere of things that we're involved in. So, yeah. It's very cool. I want to turn a rough corner here, though, and ask you a question about Bureau Direct. And that is a UK stationer. I guess... Did they have physical stores? Not that I'm aware of. I think they had a warehouse, like, you could pick up stuff. But they were one of the big online stationery retailers. And, of course, I've been familiar with them for years, as long as I've been doing this. And then, all of a sudden, my inbox last week got inundated, and my tweets, you know, mentions got inundated. It was like, oh my gosh, Brad, look at this. I'm so upset. You know, there was apparently Bureau Direct had a big following in the UK, and lots of customers were kind of shot by Bureau Direct's closing after, I think it was like 23 years. It stinks. Did you have any experience with them? A bunch.

Myke Hurley: I bought a bunch of stuff from them. That's what I thought. Yeah. I bought... I mean, I first came to know Bureau Direct as a company when I was on my field notes hunt. Yeah. Because they were one of the companies in the UK that had, like, random field notes. So, like, I'm looking through my emails now, and there's, like, I bought from them in 2012. Wow. I bought some, like... I bought some J. Urban rollerball pens, but also a traveling salesman pack. Oh, wow. Yeah. Like, I bought a bunch of stuff from them, and they were one of the companies where... that I would use relatively frequently to get something fast, right? Rather than waiting for it to come from the US. I don't know if you do, but I have absolutely no sense as to why this happened exactly. I know that they... In the email that they sent out to their customers, they kind of said, like, due to troubling or, like, difficult times. Right.

Myke Hurley: But, yeah.

Brad Dowdy: I don't have any insight at all, which is why I wanted to bring this up, because so many people reached out to me in shock. And I just wanted to bring it up, just, you know, to let people know. The email they sent was gut-wrenching, to be perfectly honest. Like, they... It's a family-run business. They feel almost like they were letting down their employees. Like, it was a super tough read. And I guess so. If you've been doing this for 23 years, I mean, that's your life. And just to, you know, to see it shuttered, it's... You hate that for any industry. But, you know, in our business, when you develop relationships as a, you know, a customer-business relationship, that's tough. And I feel for them. So, hopefully, you know, they'll come out okay on the other side. And, you know, maybe there'll be a way they can stay in it somehow outside of the normal Bureau of Direct. But I wanted to bring that up, because I know they were a well-loved company, and you hate to see that.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, I don't really know what their status is. Like, their website still exists. There's stuff still available.

Brad Dowdy: There's actually no mention of it on the website, because I was looking for a link outside of my newsletter.

Myke Hurley: So, they do have a store, by the way, or did have a store in London. I'd never been to it, but that's where they started. And then they moved to online. But, yeah, I don't really know what the situation is right now. But, you know, they've at least said that they're going away.

Brad Dowdy: Mm-hmm. Yep. So, that stinks. You know, you just hate to see it, especially in our industry. We love it. We love the people that do these things, and you just want to see them succeed. So, best of luck in their future endeavors. Hopefully, we'll see them pop up again somewhere, somehow.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. Yeah, I do hope so. I mean, it would be. It's a shame. It is definitely a shame.

Myke Hurley: Anyhow, should we take a break, Brad? Yeah, let's take a break real quick. All right, let's thank Harry's for their support of this episode. Our friends over at Harry's, they were fed up of paying for overpriced, expensive razors that had a bunch of unnecessary features that they didn't want. So, they went out and made their own product. They know that a great shave comes down to making great blades. Blades that are made of sharp, durable steel that will last you. That is why Harry's bought a factory that's been making some of the highest quality blades in the world for over 95 years. By selling directly to you over the internet, Harry's can offer their blades at half the price of the leading brands. That's just $2 per blade. And Harry's razors are backed up by a quality guarantee. If you don't love your shave, let Harry's know within 30 days and you'll get yourself a full refund. Brad Dowdy, what do you think about your Harry's products?

Brad Dowdy: I owe Harry's an apology, Myke. Uh-oh, what'd you do? Today was shave day. Mm-hmm. You know, I'm an every other day shaver, right? It's very consistent. Every other day, I shave. You know, I don't need to look good for my dog Toby every day. You know, so I'm good with that. And I skipped out on him because I was in a hurry, Myke. I was running around. I've had a wonderful morning of getting things done. One of those things that fell by the wayside this morning as in the lead up to this podcast was actually taking a shower. So I had to rush that about 945, about 15 minutes before we went on air. I was still hopping out of the shower and I knew I don't have time to shave today. But you know what, Myke? I'm going to make it up to Harry's tomorrow. And with three days stubble, my Harry's razor blade is just going to slice through it like butter. Like, there's no issue with taking an extra day between shaves. And I know my Harry's blades can handle it. So sorry about today, Harry's razor blade. But I know you got my back tomorrow.

Myke Hurley: I appreciate you taking a shower for me before we begin. It's very nice of you.

Brad Dowdy: Absolutely.

Myke Hurley: Harry stands behind the quality of their blades, but they know that switching razors isn't an easy decision. So they've created a trial offer for the listeners of this show. Just go to harrys.com slash penaddict. And right now you can claim a trial set that includes a weighted ergonomic handle, five blade razor with lubricating strip and trimmer blade, rich leathering shave gel, and a travel blade cover as well. This set has a value of $13 and comes with everything you're going to need for a close, comfortable shave. But listeners of this show can redeem their trial set right now at harrys.com slash penaddict. Once again, that is harrys.com slash penaddict to redeem your offer and let them know that we sent you. Our thanks to Harry's for their support of this show and RelayFM.

Kickstarter Mark 1 Discussion

Brad Dowdy: Do you have or did you back the Mark 1 Kickstarter project? I want to start there.

Myke Hurley: Well, I say kind of and yes.

Brad Dowdy: Okay. Did you receive your Kickstarter Mark 1 pen?

Myke Hurley: I have not because they haven't yet fulfilled international orders. That's coming soon is my understanding.

Brad Dowdy: That's a bulk type of thing they're trying to do.

Myke Hurley: It's like a win. It's like a win kind of win situation where it takes them a little bit longer. But because they ship them in bulk, I don't have to have them go through customs. Okay. So they have a warehouse in the UK.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I'm setting all this up because I got mine and I really want to talk about it because

Myke Hurley: I have a prototype. But the prototype does not equate for the final product, right? Exactly.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So we've gone through. Let's I guess we should give a little bit of background here. So Studio Neat, you know, Tom and Dan, the owners, designers, founders are friends of ours.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. Big friends of ours. Right. Like they are RelayFM hosts. Like, you know. They're like close.

Brad Dowdy: They're like close personal friends of ours. So they make stuff. And, you know, you and I and a lot of other people were involved in getting prototypes of this pin as they went through the build process. They've talked about it on Thoroughly Considered, which is a great podcast y'all should all listen to about making things. I learn a lot from them. So close personal friends. So you should know that as I go into this review because I got mine. I want to say Friday or Saturday. So I've had it a handful of days and I'm they made something pretty special here. And I'm not just blowing smoke because they're my friends. I don't I wouldn't do that to anyone. And I would I would tell them as much to their face.

Brad Dowdy: First of all, the look of it is amazing. Right. So all of our prototypes, at least mine, I think all of my prototypes came in black and nickel. I may have gotten one white nickel.

Myke Hurley: I got the white black. I had a white copper one initially, but this was before they completely redesigned the knock. Right. Because I got my first one from them in like October 2016. And that was like, we're ready to go. But then all the feedback that they were getting, including from me, was this knock is not good enough. It's too spongy. So that was when they went back to the drawing board and made their own knock mechanism. Right. Like, right. And that's why it then took them best part of another year before they would launch the Kickstarter campaign.

Brad Dowdy: Yep. Totally. So all of my prototypes were black and nickel. So when I went to back the Kickstarter, which I did, I backed the white and copper. You know, it's it's different from what I have. Yeah. If if I was just if I didn't already have old versions of the black and black and nickel, I might have got that. But the whitest I've kind of turned a corner on white pens and I actually have several white pens that I use frequently. We're just talking about the James brand Benton that I bought in white, you know, last week. So the the color they nailed it, the design, the shape, the color. What stood out besides how it looks is how the tolerances turned out. And with a metal and all metal pen, it's extremely tough to make a quiet metal pen. Right. We talk about that all the time. Yeah.

Myke Hurley: I mean, this is a big thing that especially Tom has been talking about on Thoroughly Considered over the last year is the tolerances. And it's something that I hadn't realized until you just mentioned it about like how difficult it can be to to get the tolerances right. And what that means is the pen is not going to make any noise. It's not going to rattle. Now, my thinking is because these guys are new to pens, that they are less they will they will allow it less. Right. They are less excusing of of less than perfect tolerances. Right. So I think that they work very, very hard to do that because the other products that they tend to make, they need to consider this stuff in the same way. So I know it was super important to them that the tolerances were right on. And that was a lot of the issues that they had. And but I think has made a better product. Well, I'm assuming.

Brad Dowdy: Right. And there's a there's a range of acceptability with pens like where the tip of the pen comes out the nose cone, it can't be flush usually because then it'll scrape right when you're deploying the pen. But it can't be loose because then that tip moves within that cone. It makes that tapping sound. Makes a click clack sound. Right. So there's an acceptability of that click clack noise. It's just going to be there. Right. A lot of times when you're talking metal on metal, metal on plastic is not as noticeable. This is a fully metal pen. It is dead quiet. I've never used a metal pen that was this quiet. This goes to the barrel interior as well. So there's oftentimes when you have a retractable pen and it's all metal, the click mechanism will also have some different springs or some different parts interior to the barrel and it'll move on the inside and you could feel it and hear it.

Myke Hurley: Also, like this is a thing where if you tap the pen body against your finger, you'll hear it all rattling around inside. Right. Like that's the thing that you'll hear a lot in Zollopens.

Brad Dowdy: Yep. You know it. And then the knock.

Brad Dowdy: I don't know.

Brad Dowdy: I, they, it's perfect. I don't, I don't know what to say. It's people were listening to me click it on the Twitch stream the other day and they're like, oh, that's different.

Myke Hurley: Give us a go now.

Myke Hurley: It's so satisfying. I'm so pleased they did this, that, that, that they took the time to do it because, you know, I mean, and this is why I think the people that cared like me and you gave them the feedback that we gave them on it was like the whole pen, the whole idea of this pen was based around the fact that it's the Schmidt refill with a knock mechanism, which is rare. It's mostly a twist mechanism because the Schmidt knock mechanism that you can make that some other pens use, it sucks. It's not good. It's not satisfying at all. It's like a spongy mess. It's, it's not, it doesn't feel good. Plus it has this huge collar on it. You will see pens by other companies that have this refill with a knock mechanism and you'll see the same knock everywhere. And it has this huge collar and then the knock and the knock isn't satisfying. And I'm so pleased that they ended up taking the time to make something this good. And again, like my, I have no prototype, right? It sounds basically the same, right? It's, it's so satisfying that it lifts the overall feeling of the pen and makes it something more special.

Brad Dowdy: Right. Like it could just be there and work, but it actually makes a difference in the quality and the feel of the pen. And that's when, when you're making something like this, a lot of it comes down to feel. And that's not something like you can put down on paper, right? In, you know, when you're in your planning stages, you know, you know, it should feel good. Well, you have all these parts to consider and put together in the fit and finish in the end, does it feel good writing? And it really does. So I, it's not as wide as you think it is, right? Looking at pictures, it's a wide pen. Do not get me wrong. It's not overly wide, right? It's not overly big. It's like a little bit wider diameter than a normal gel ink pen that I would use.

Pen Size Comparison

Myke Hurley: So I would say it's pretty similar to the retro 51. I don't think that it's much bigger than that.

Brad Dowdy: Except the retro has a taper. Yes. So we can, you can adjust the high or low grip depending on how you want it to feel there. So this, there's no taper until you get past the nose cone where you're not going to grip.

Brad Dowdy: But it's kind of, it's not lightweight, but it's light, right? When you're writing, you don't notice the weight of the pen. It just feels good. It's hilarious when you sit it down for a while and then pick it back up. It's freezing cold. I don't know if you've experienced this with this pen, but it feels like with this Cerakote, even though I know it's a ceramic coating, but it feels like a ceramic pen, especially because mine is, is white. It seems like, oh, white ceramic. Aluminium body ceramic coating. But you pick it up, it's cold. And then as you use it, it kind of warms up. It's like a, it's like a little cozy little pen. The only thing I didn't care for was the packaging. And I think I'm the outlier on this, at least according to the Twitch stream when I brought it up. So they did a cork design packaging that has a wrap on it. The wrap around it was really neat because you pull, it's set to pull off cleanly. And then all the instructions are on the backside of the wrapper, which is great. That was a cool design, but it's designed to be a desk tray when you open it up. And it's essentially a two-sided desk tray. You can use both parts of it. And number one, I don't really care for cork, but that's not a big deal if that's just the packaging that it comes in. But if I'm not going to use it as a desk tray, I can't store it properly because the two sides don't attach to each other. Right. So now if I'm going to put the case away in my closet, it's in two distinct pieces. Okay. So they can just get separated.

Myke Hurley: Yeah. I know they had a lot of trouble around the packaging, kind of what to do and then how to make it sustainable. And this is what they ended up going with. I like the idea, but I doubt that I will use it because I have my own pen storage. Right. But I think it's a neat idea. You know what I'll probably do? I'll give it to Idina and she will find some use for that. Right. Like to put paperclips in it. You know what I mean? Like it will find its way into our home somewhere, I reckon. Yeah. I mean, again, I understand what you're saying that I don't store pens in their boxes anyway. I kind of just, I either store them in wooden blocks on my desk and then little nice little neat holes or they go in the exact opposite where they just get put in those big drawers that I have like all kind of loose in there. Right. But yeah, I can see that. But it definitely seemed like it was something that they were struggling with about how to package that thing up. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: And I'm not sure I caught that edition of the podcast. I declared podcast bankruptcy about three or four weeks ago from like the last month or two of podcasts I had. I was like, I can't catch up on all these. So I've probably missed the last couple where they talked about the packaging. But yeah, if you're not using it as a desk tray, it's not really functional. But like I said, that doesn't matter in the big picture. I'm using the pen. I don't really care. I'm not a packaging guy, right? We've discussed this a thousand times. It's like I'd rather just spend the money elsewhere than packaging.

Myke Hurley: I am a packaging guy. It means a lot to me with the things that I buy.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I get it. Like I understand packaging.

Myke Hurley: It shows to me again, and this is just my own personal opinion. I understand the flaws in my thinking. But when a product that I own has or I buy has a nice packaging, it gives me the sense of that my money was well spent. And I know that there's a definite flaw in that. It's like I just paid for it anyway. But it gives it like a feeling like it makes it an experience. And I like the experiences, you know, it's probably why I like Apple products so much, you know, like similar idea. So I like the packaging to be cute and clever. Like I even just opened today's episode by talking at length about the packaging for the knife that I bought.

Brad Dowdy: It's great, right? Like it's packaging design is a skill on its own, right? People's job is to design great packaging.

Myke Hurley: But the products you make, they don't, they are their own packaging. They don't need it, right?

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So you're right on all accounts. Like I do not disagree with the thing you said, but you know, it's just also a philosophy of making things and where's the cost going to lie. So, you know, how much of your budget are you allocating to packagings, which means in turn, how much are you charging your customers? So it's all a balance. But I think you'll be, I don't know, you'll probably be happy with the next point. Dan and Tom will probably be happy with the next point. And I'm not sure anyone else will be happy with the next point, Michael. I think they way undercharged for this pen by a good amount by like, I think this is at minimum an $80 pen. And I think I paid, it's on the site for 60. I don't know what we paid on Kickstarter. I think it was less than that. Probably the same. Yeah. Yeah. So they're selling it right now on Studio N8 for $60. It may not be $100 pen, but it's an $80 or $90 pen without question.

Price Discussion

Myke Hurley: They sold it for $50.

Brad Dowdy: Okay.

Myke Hurley: On the Kickstarter.

Brad Dowdy: It just is. Like you get products and you can just kind of a set when you, there's someone like myself who tries lots of things and see where lots of different things come in at different price points. And you kind of, you know, you do the mental gymnastics of assigning value to things. And it's like, is this worth, like we talk about that with knock a lot. You know, we make a case, we feel like it's an X amount of dollar case. And I can't charge 2X for that because then no one would buy it. Right. But this, I feel like this is a way more expensive pen than what I paid for it.

Myke Hurley: I'm not going to put words in, I don't want to put words in their mouth, but my feeling on it. And if I was them, I would probably come to the same decision of like, this is my first pen. So I have to show people what I can do. Totally. So I might price it a little bit less than future products for that reason.

Brad Dowdy: You know, man, it's a struggle price. Figuring out the right price on things is a struggle. Like you have your base costs in there, right? Like you got to make money on the product, but then what is that actual number? That is super hard. It's super hard to come up with that number. I'm just saying like, this feels like a more expensive pen than I paid for it. I feel like I got great value in what I paid for this pen versus what it actually is when I use it because I enjoy it so much. It's shockingly good. Not that those guys don't design amazing products, but it's their first pen and what they accomplished is not easy. No. And I know they're my friends and, but I know I would tell them, you know, my honest opinion and my honest opinion is this is really a job well done.

Myke Hurley: And this is one of those things where like for me and I guess for you as well, like you make up your own mind on this one. But also remember me and Brad were heavily involved in giving feedback on this product. So it was very unlikely that we were not going to like this. Oh yeah, absolutely. Right. But I think that that's a good thing. Like if you trust our opinions, also know that like before the product was made, we were giving our opinions on it, right? Like kind of helping them understand what we liked and didn't like. And I think that that helped inform some of the decisions that they ended up making. I can't wait to get mine. You know, like I've had the prototype and the prototype has all of the benefits that you've mentioned there, but you know, obviously it's not a kind of factory made, you know, so it's not as tight. Right. But I can't wait. I got both so I could mix and match whatever I want to color wise. But yeah, so it's just to tie in, not on the pricing. The black one is 60 and the white one is 65. And I think this is because again, you should listen to Thoroughly Considered. Everybody should. It's a fun show. We talk about all this stuff, but they had a lot of issues. With the Cerakote with the white. Yeah. It's way harder to do. And I expect, again, I don't know this, but I expect that that's pretty why it was a little bit more expensive because it was really tricky.

Brad Dowdy: I've supported Cerakote finish pins in the past and there's always a problem. I've sent one back from when I got the TI2 tech liner. I got the orange Cerakote one and the finish was terrible. I had to send it back. Like it's not easy.

Myke Hurley: And this is why they are hand checking literally every single one themselves. It's wild.

Brad Dowdy: So this one looks great. Like, you know, no problem detected. So it feels good. So anyway, I, you know, it's hard not to get hit with the bias hammer when you're talking about your friends and your friends products. But I think, you know, my record stands on its own that I will be a straight shooter no matter who is involved with any project. And I just feel like this was above and beyond even my wildest expectations for what they delivered. So really good job, guys. And I hope to see you soon and stab you with your own pen.

Myke Hurley: I hope that this is just the beginning of their pen endeavors. Pen endeavors.

Brad Dowdy: Pen endeavors. Well, they've already made a notebook. Now they've made a pen. So they're just going to be a stationary company now.

Myke Hurley: And I'm good with that. History would say for them that once they do find something that works for them, they do go full bore on it. So I wouldn't be surprised. All right. Today's episode is also brought to you by our friends over at Pen Chalet. Pen Chalet are a wonderful supporter of this show. And they're also a wonderful place to buy your rollables and fountain pens, your ink, your refills, your carrying cases, your pen holders. No matter what you want, go to Pen Chalet. Go to Pen Chalet first for a bunch of reasons. They sell internationally with great shipping rates. They do free shipping on orders of over $50 in the US. They have a 100% satisfaction guarantee. They have low prices on high quality pens. They always run special discounts. Every two weeks, they have closeout specials. They're always adding new styles of pen every single month. But one of the other great reasons to go to Pen Chalet is you can get a 10% discount at any time because you listen to the show. Go to PenCalet.com. P-E-N-C-H-A-L-E-T.com. Click the podcast link at the top of the website and use the password Pen Addict. There you will get the code that you need to save 10% on anything at Pen Chalet. And also, you'll find access to special offers that are just for pen addict listeners. So if you go there right now, Brad, what do you recommend people take a look at from the Pen Chalet offers this time?

Brad Dowdy: So there's a pen that I have never tried, which is the Conklin Crescent Filler. But this one's a little bit different. It's the 120th anniversary. And it has that nib on it. I forget the name of that nib. But they have a Flex nib now that Conklin's offering. I haven't tested these out, but it seems like this is about half the normal price of what these pens go for. So that seems pretty crazy. And then the Nemo Scene, which we recommend sometimes as an entry-level fountain pen. If you're not looking to spend up on the Conklin for under $10, you can get these Nemo Scenes to test out and play with and check out the nibs and try a bunch of inks. That's pretty cool.

Myke Hurley: I've never seen this Lamy Gifts up before.

Brad Dowdy: Where am I? I didn't even scroll it all the way down. It's towards the bottom of the page. Lamy Gifts set. Is it an ink sampler? Oh, it's a pen with an ink cartridge sampler set. Yeah. That's kind of wild. Yeah, I haven't seen that before. That's pretty neat. Is there an orange one in there, Myke? There isn't. I looked. Oh, suckers. Hire me.

Myke Hurley: Hire me, Lamy. We need to talk. And then we might talk about this later, but also they have a great deal on a pen display case as well. Yes. The pen display case, which is you put 20 pens in it. It's got a couple of drawers in it. $78 after the coupon is applied. So that's nothing. It's a really, really great price for something that looks so great. So go to penshalet.com right now. Click that podcast link at the top of the website and use the password penaddict to get access to all of this. Our thanks to Ron and Penchalet for their support of this show and RelayFM.

Show Transition

Brad Dowdy: All right. So how was the Philly pen show, Myke?

Myke Hurley: I wouldn't know, Brad, but I don't think you do either. So did you have people on the ground?

Brad Dowdy: I did. I had people on the ground, though. I wish I was there. Oh, it was killing me seeing all the pictures this weekend. But even though we weren't there, I wanted to give a quick shout out to the Philly pen show. You know, it looked like a fun event. They got their annual snow on Saturday night. It snowed at the show. So I think that's like two out of the last three shows. But all the feedback I got was just how much fun it was. I was looking at all the pictures and seeing all my friends there. And it all had smiles on their faces. And everything seemed to go off without a hitch. And I just wanted to give a quick shout out to Franklin Kristoff, not just for putting on the show, but for putting Audrey Madison in the chair. She's got the big chair now. She's doing all the nib work now for Franklin Kristoff. She's doing the SIG grind, which she learned from the master, Jim Rouse himself. And I just wanted to say thank you to them for doing this. And Audrey, I'm super proud of you. And I think this is just an awesome turn of events for the company and for the community. They're really doing it right. And I just appreciate it. And I look forward to sitting with Audrey next time I get my own Franklin Kristoff at a pen show. So good job by them.

Myke Hurley: Yeah, I hope that that will be the setup in Atlanta.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah, certainly will be. Yeah, certainly will be.

Myke Hurley: So that'll be exciting. You know, it's like it'll be sad for me. Yep. Right. Because it'll be my first show. Since Jim's passing. But it will be wonderful to see Audrey pick up the reins.

Brad Dowdy: Yes. Yeah. So I'm super excited about that. And from the people on the ground, Myke, it looks like there were a couple of new models introduced. Franklin Kristoff had a Model 46, which I want to check out. It's a little bit larger pen than like the Model 45 pocket one I have. I think it's a bigger style. And then Ryan Krusak went the other way. So he did the wood pens of his that I like so much are the L14, the Legend series. L14 was the first one. I bought that. L16 was the bigger one. I bought that. And now the L12 is the smaller one. And you know I like the smaller pens. So the L12 is going to be on my pen shopping list radar. So I saw a bunch of pictures of that. Saw a bunch of pictures of the pen mixer, which was great. Hosted by Lisa Van Ness at night. And I just heard that there was a lot of first time attendees, lots of new faces in the crowd. So that just bodes well for the community as a whole. So it's really, really great. So a real positive start to the year. And I can't wait. My first show will be Baltimore, which is only like a month and a half away. So, yeah, I look forward to it.

Myke Hurley: That is kicking up.

Brad Dowdy: Yep. So aside from the show, a couple of listeners brought to attention a couple of price increases we wanted to talk about. We do have to hit the news every now and then when there's news, Myke. Especially when it's a brand as much as we heap praise on as the Platinum 3776. But their base product price line is getting an increase. And you know what? It probably should. So the Platinum 3776. We've always talked about the base colors, which are black, the Chartres Blue, and the Bourgogne. The red, kind of the burgundy red one. And if you shop in the right places, which is a lot of different places on the internet, you can get those for really, really cheap. We say that's probably the best gold nib, first gold nib pin that you can buy. And you can get them for like 70, 80 bucks sometimes if you're shopping around. But they've raised the MSRPs from about $92 is what they were before. That's why you could get them for like in the 70s. Up to $120. So that's a pretty large percentage increase. And it still makes it a good deal. Like I don't have an issue with this at all. So it's like $120 MSRP, which means you can probably get it for around 100-ish. I'm still recommending this pen 100% of the time, right?

Myke Hurley: Mm-hmm.

Pilot Pen Prices

Brad Dowdy: So they introduced the new Laurel Green and the Chenonceau White. I don't know what that means. And I don't know if I pronounced it right. So those are the two new colors they launched. And they started those at the new price. And then they brought up the stock ones to that price. So it's a kind of a rebalancing of the entry-level gold nib pen. And I just thought it was worth mentioning because we talk about that pen so much. And I think I'm kind of like a lot of us and like you, we're kind of eyeballing them for the limited special editions that they do. But this is such a good entry-level pen that, you know, even at the raised price, it's where you want to go. Because your other options in that price range, Myke, is something like the Pilot Custom 74, which also got hit with a price increase. Not as drastic. It was right in the same price before, $92-ish MSRP for a gold nib 14K pen. That's great. They raised it up to about $110.

Brad Dowdy: It's still a good deal. It's not a huge jump. And it was both of these pens were probably underpriced in the big picture anyway. But this one is way less exciting because they actually readjusted the colors that were available. So the 74 used to come in like the black and gold trim. And then it had the translucent barrels. It had orange, purple, and clear. So they took them all out except clear and introduced your basic solid acrylics, you know, burgundy, green, navy, I think, and black. Oh, yeah, I think that's it.

Brad Dowdy: And this is just a super boring pen. The 74 is like my least favorite Pilot entry-level gold nib pen. You know, I like the 91 better. If you can afford it, the 92 better. You know, it's a piston filler. It's better. The 74 is kind of their weakest pen. I'd buy a 3776 over this every time. Um, you know, they made it more boring. But it's also that entry-level gold price point. So that's kind of what you do. Like, I'm okay with that. Like, it's a perfectly fine pen. I'd choose the 91 over it. The barrel's a little bit better. Feels better. And I think the 91, I'm not sure if the 74 will take the Con 70 converter. I'll have to check into that. But the 91 takes the Con 70, which is the big boy converter. Holds up a lot more ink. So, anyway, little bit of boring news. But I always find this kind of thing interesting to see when these companies do this. Especially, like, the 307076 is a really major product line for Platinum. With Pilot, they've increased the Metropolitan in the 74. I'll have to see if there's any other price increases. Because the Metropolitan one makes sense. The 74 one's a little bit random in the grand scheme of things if things like the 91 aren't getting an uptick. So, the chat room says the 74 does take the Con 70. So, that's good. That's the best converter, even though it's the most annoying one to use. So, there you go, Myke. That's our bit of penatic news. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

Myke Hurley: Do you think that there's anything significant about both of these happening at the same time?

Brad Dowdy: No. I think both of them were underpriced to begin with. I don't think, like, years ago, we had an across-the-board gold nib price increase, right? What, four, five, six years ago, it seems like. Like, everyone was raising prices across the board on gold nib pens. I don't think these are related.

Myke Hurley: I mean, also, it's like, they're not huge increases, but they are. It's just interesting to me that they both happened at the same time.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. I just don't think the Platinum, excuse me, the Pilot 74 gets the play that the 3776 does. Like, I don't think the 74 is an important pen. Like, I think it's just a fine, average pen. I think the 3776 is an exceptional pen. And I want to see, it was a little bit hard to read the translation on Google Translate for the Platinum page. I couldn't tell if they're saying, like, the body, they had a comment about the body molding changing, but I couldn't tell if they're saying when they refreshed the lineup a few years ago, they did that, or that's coming soon. Like, it didn't look like any change. Like, I couldn't notice any physical change with the barrel. It's like, you know, normally when you see a price increase, if they're not tying it to precious metals increases, they're tying it to, hey, we redid the molds for these pens, or we're changing the hardware on these pens somehow, and this is how we're justifying the price increase. I couldn't quite make heads or tails of that on the Platinum page. But anyway, we'll see. I'll want to see the, you know, I'll look at the Laurel Green and the Shinonso in Baltimore just to see if there's any visual difference. I'm not going to be picking anyone up, but I definitely want to get them in hand and see if there's any difference.

Sponsor Segment

Myke Hurley: All right, today's episode is also brought to you by our friends over at FreshBooks. FreshBooks can save you up to 192 hours with this super simple cloud accounting software for freelancers. This is something I can attest to. I send invoices using FreshBooks and have been for nearly five years now, and every single time I marvel at just how easy and simple it is to use. I love how much time they save me. I love that every time I log into FreshBooks, I get notifications to see exactly what's changed since the last time I've been there, so I know what needs my attention. And if I need to dig down, to drill down to anything, it's super simple to do. I get information that I want. So, like, for example, I can find out, you know, how many invoices do I have outstanding right now past the 30 days that I want them to be, so I can see that and I can click in and see what invoices they are. I can then go into those specific companies and see how long it typically takes them to pay me, so I'll know if I need to send a reminder to them. Do I owe you any money? You don't. You don't, which is good. Which is good. I probably owe you some, but you should send me a FreshBooks invoice and I can take care of it. What I like about that is I'm able to then go in and send the reminders out when I want to, but you can also automate that stuff. So if you want to spend even less time than I already do dealing with your invoices, FreshBooks will have automatic late payment email reminders as well, so you don't need to spend time chasing people. And you can also see the status of your invoice. You can see when it's been opened. You can see when it's been printed. You can see every time somebody goes back and opens that invoice, you get a little note there, so you'll know that people are looking at it. If you ever send any invoices, you ever do any time tracking expenses, or if you ever need to get paid online in a fast, sensible, and easy way, FreshBooks is the tool for you. They're offering an unrestricted 30-day free trial for listeners of this show. You don't need to give them any credit card information. All you have to do is go to freshbooks.com slash penaddict, and when they say, how did you hear about FreshBooks, say you heard about it on the penaddict. Our thanks to FreshBooks for their support of this show on RelayFM. Once again, that's freshbooks.com slash penaddict.

Brad Dowdy: All right, Michael, we're going to wrap this one up with all of your fine-ass TPA questions. With this first one from Doc Krog, it says, I finally accrued enough pens that I'm starting to think about something to hold them in, but they're not fancy enough that I feel like it's worth getting an expensive box or case for them. What's a budget pen case for some medium-range pens you'd recommend? He also had a follow-up question that he did not tag appropriately, so you did not have it in there, but he was saying, and also separately, is there a case for mini pens? So we'll handle these separately. The first pen case, knowing, I followed Doc for a while, and he's an artist. The first case I would go to is the Kokuyo Neocrits. It's a stand-up pen case. That way you can take, you know, just like a fistful of pens. They all fit in there. It holds them really nice. They're really cool looking, and it's portable to where you can take it wherever you're working and just plop down that pen case, and it's a stand-up pen case. So I'd look at that. Anything from Lihit Labs is also going to work really well. They have some funky design elements on the interior that may not work best for your setup, but I think just for, like, bulk carry, you want to look at, like, the Neocrits, but if you need to, like, separate out your pens and separate, have these little compartments, look at Lihit Lab. Those are kind of my two favorite things. Mini pens specifically is a harder question to answer, and I brought that up because I don't know that I have a great answer for that. Like, if I was going to take, like, my Kaweco Sports or all the mini pens that I love and put them in a case and carry them to where the case is actually made for that style of pen, I don't know that I have something like that. I know, like, Galen Leather made a mini pen specific case that we reviewed on the blog, but that is way not what you're looking for here. So, yeah, I'll have to think about that, a mini pen case. But for your bulk storage, I think the Neocrits and the Lihit Lab, pretty much anything by Kukuyo or Lihit Lab as far as cases go, that's where you're going to want to hit.

Myke Hurley: All right, our next question comes from Dr. Farron. My partner bought me a pen at the Philly show to commemorate the arrival of our first rescue dog, a miniature poodle named Miss B. Which of your pens has the most meaning to you and why?

Brad Dowdy: I super love this question. Yay, Miss B. You go first, because this is a really hard question.

Myke Hurley: Changes for me a lot, but a couple that sprung to mind immediately for me was the engraved Retro 51 that you arranged for me with Lisa, which has our wedding date, my name and Adina's wedding date engraved into it, which is wonderful. And then one that also jumps to mind is the Arushi pen that Jonathan Brooks gave us. That's such a good pen. Just because it is focused around the pen addict, which is wonderful. It has the engraving on the nib and it's orange and black. That's us. And also, it meant a lot to me because it came with love, you know. I think we helped Jonathan out a bit when he was starting out, and he then has become rightly very successful. And it's nice to have something that kind of symbolizes all of that. So there are a couple of pens that mean a lot to me. Yeah.

Brad Dowdy: And, you know, regardless of my thoughts on packaging before, what he did for the box for those is a special as a pen. It was really great. So we'll have to take some updated photos of that pen because it's fantastic. It's funny, mine are kind of in the same categories. And I think my one pen that, I don't know, like I would hate the most if I didn't have, like if there was a, you know, if the building was burning down and I could take one pen, I think it would be my Nakaya portable, my black and green Nakaya that I love so much, that I spent so much time researching. Like I put a lot of effort into deciding on that pen, and I felt that it was like the right path. Like the answer ended up being worth the work. And I just feel like that was an important turning point for me, just in like pens. And it's one that I enjoy the most. It's my favorite pen by far. And then my second one is actually the first retro 51 I did for the pen addict. It's the orange one with the brush silver, because that was a really big stretch for me to do something that big, like 300 pens. could I do that? That was like an undertaking and kind of a test of myself, whether I could be successful, like doing something like that. And there was a monetary risk and things like that. And the pen came out really, really cool. It's simple, but it was kind of the start of something. And, you know, it was like a piece of my story, I guess, kind of the way it felt, it played out. So that's, those are kind of like two that I thought of when, you know, we were talking about like, what's meaningful, you know, to you. So those are, those are the ones I came up with.

Myke Hurley: I think that's good. So Dr. Farron also asked a second question. Philly was my first ever pen show. Do you remember what surprised you the most, the first time you attended the show?

Brad Dowdy: The scope of what was physically laid out on the tables.

Myke Hurley: It's a lot.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. It is so much. It is a lot of stuff.

Brad Dowdy: You know, I went to my, my first one was the Atlanta pen show. And this was before, like, this is before the podcast and this is before not, oh no, it wasn't before the podcast. It was in the early days of the podcast. It was before knock and my first ever pen show. And it was just like, I just walked around, you know, with my eyes like popping out of my head. I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to do with my hands. You know, I didn't know where to go. I didn't know who to talk to. You know? So yeah, it was actually, it's actually tough going to your first pen show. And I've actually talked to a couple of people since Philly that there was noticing there were so many new people there that we still need to continue to bang the drum for, you know, getting the first time pen show goers comfortable in attending. And, you know, still like the pen show one Oh one is still a very, very important thing to focus on. So, you know, I'll be thinking about some of those things as we go forward, because it is not easy at all. So what did you think at your first ever pen show?

Myke Hurley: So I'll probably take Atlanta as the thing here. Cause I think, I think I went to the London show first and I didn't really go, it's not the same. I think for me, the thing that I was most surprised at with the American pen shows I've been to is the community aspect of it. I don't think I would have expected people to be hanging out as much, you know, like that there is a real like hangout culture, just like during the day, but in the evenings as well. And people are like trying out all of this stuff and like, here's my pens, here's your pens. Hey, you know, give this a try. Like that's the big thing for me.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. Never would have expected that either. Like I definitely didn't see that the first time because like, I just didn't know. So, you know, we need to make sure that we're putting, putting this out there that this is just such a helpful and open community that will make your, your first pen show experience a very comfortable and, and easier than we had it. Um, the first time we did it, but I know, I know it's not an easy thing to do, especially when like a lot of us are very introverted and you walk into that swarm. So it's crazy. All right. Warehouse. Oh, similar type of question. I didn't even see this, uh, as the followup went to my first pen show and filling was overwhelmed by the amount of vintage fountain pens. I didn't know what I was looking at. Any suggestions on where a beginner can start their fountain pen education? So, I mean, you went to the right place. I understand that. Okay. Maybe you didn't get the education you were looking for, but like, you know, we can point you to, we need to do a better job of pointing you out to people like Jessica Coles, who, you know, restores vintage pens, you know, a lot of Esther Brooks, and she can talk to you about, you know, how and why you should consider these vintage pens, what their features are. There's a gentleman named Paul Arano that goes to a lot of pen shows and he's kind of integrated himself into like helping, you know, people with questions, you know, explaining things with them. You know, it's hard to know who these people are when you've never seen them or never met them before, but we just need to continue to talk about these things. Um, online, it's hard to say what specific place you can do. Anything you can do to go read about the products is great. You know, like Richard Bender has huge series of vintage pen articles on his site that you can go read, but finding out the person that you can ask questions to and get good answers to, it's super, super difficult to like say specifically what to do. So I don't know. That's something, that's something that we could definitely work on more in pointing out resources, continuing to say the names of the people you can hunt out at different pen shows that we know are going to be a good resource and give you a good experience at a pen show. So yeah, that's definitely something we can do a little bit better on. And you can always email me with specific questions. You know, a lot of the vintage stuff I won't know an answer to, but I can point you in the right direction. So I'm glad to help.

Myke Hurley: All right. And our final question today comes from KJ Miller. Uh, I was gifted Bombay blue and black India ink that dries and clogs the tip of my nibs. What do I do to fix this other than going back to my pilot ink?

Brad Dowdy: Jay, you're my friend. I've been on your podcast, buddy. We need to talk these. I'm assuming you're using them in a fountain pen. These are not fountain pen inks, and this is not an uncommon thing. This is something that comes up from time to time, but Bombay and India inks are not made for fountain pens. So you should never put them in the fountain pens. They're not going to work. They're made for dip nib pens. So these are not going to flow properly through your pen. So take those pens, clean them out really good and go back to your pilot ink and send me a DM. get a different ink,

Myke Hurley: but just stop using those ones.

Brad Dowdy: Well, yeah, those are dip nib inks only. This reminds me of the Visionaire. Remember when he inked them up with the Visionaire? He was doing his product shots with Bombay ink bottles in the Visionaire, and people still spent $300,000 on that project. Good job by you.

Myke Hurley: Because people don't know.

Brad Dowdy: Yeah. So Jay, this is not to dog on you. This comes up a lot. So just like all the beginner stuff that we talked about before, sometimes we forget. This is an important question because these look like bottles of ink that you can just put in your fountain pens. You do not put these in your fountain pens. They will not work. And you found that out. So it's okay. You can fix it. Just clean it. You're going to have to clean them really well. And then go back to your other inks. And then, yeah, shoot me a message and we'll talk about it. Getting you set up.

Myke Hurley: All right. If you would like to send in a question for a future episode, you can send out a tweet with the hashtag AskTPA, and it can be considered for one episode in the future. We'd love to get those questions and answer them how we can. If you want to find show notes for this week, relay.fm slash penaddict slash 342 has a bunch of stuff, but it should also be in your podcast app of choice. You can find Brad online at penaddict.com and knock.co. Brad is penaddict on Instagram. I'm Dowdyism on Twitter. I am imike, I-M-Y-K-E on Instagram and Twitter as well. Thanks to Harry's Penchalet and FreshBooks for their support of this show. And most of all, thank you for listening. Until next time, say goodbye, Brad. Goodbye, Brad.